Why don't they make slides out of lighter materials?

[David the Gnome]

This is a question I've been wondering for a while. Why don't they make slides out of lighter material than carbon or stainless steel? Wouldn't it be possible to make a polymer slide with metal parts in the high-stress areas, similar to how they make polymer frames now? A slide with an internal steel frame covered in polymer would be much lighter than an all steel slide if you could find a way to make it durable. Most of the slide isn't really under a lot of stress, mostly it's just the breach face and the slide rails that are taking the brunt of the force. Shouldn't you be able to use a similar system to what SIG does with their removable breach blocks but with a polymer slide?

What are your thoughts on the topic?

 

[Chipperman]

With most action designs they NEED the slide to be heavy. Think about what is happening with the slide. Generally, it retracts, pulling the just-fired case out, then it needs to strip a new cartidge from the mag and have enough forward momentum to go fully into battery.

If a slide is too light, it would not be able to push a new cartridge into battery.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

My thoughts?

With a polymer frame, a certain amount of flex is possible -- maybe desirable (for lower "felt" recoil).

With polymer, if you're using the sights, the steel slide allows for a consistent slide/barrel (and, in effect, barrel/sight) lockup in a polymer gun -- so accuracy is still possible.

That barrel to sight relationship must be consistent; any flex in the slide could adversely affect accuracy. If you have a polymer slide, it would have to be as rigid (unflexing) as steel or alloy.

The extra weight from the steel isn't always an enemy. I have some light-weight guns, and they can be brutal to shoot.

(I disagree with the prior response about the importance of a heavy slide in extracting a spent round. Physics and barrel design will do that -- for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

If anything, the weight of the slide and retarding force of the recoil spring will SLOW the rearward movement of the spent cartridge and delay extraction, as the slide's inertia must be overcome, and the force of the recoil must be partially transferred to and stored in the spring. The stored force in the recoil spring strips and loads the next cartridge, not the weight of the slide.)

 

[azredhawk44]

Wouldn't it be possible to make a polymer slide with metal parts in the high-stress areas, similar to how they make polymer frames now?

Kel-Tec's PMR-30 does that. We'll see how it holds up.

 

[m.p.driver]

You need the mass of the slide to absorb some of the recoil and to provide the necessary enertia for chambering and extraction.The lighter the slide then the heavier the recoil spring ,which would be a bear to pull back.You could probably make it work but it would be like shooting one of the scandium Smiths,after 5 rounds youre done.

 

[madmag]

You need steel for high stress area's. Polymer is good for it's purpose but it will not come close to steel for tensile strength. I think as close as you get is the example above. Use polymer but with steel inserts for stress areas.

 

[johnwilliamson062]

wowsers. Very interested in that gun. Not in that chambering but a good place to start with it.

As innovative as the LCR.

 

[ferrarif1fan]

Taurus used titanium

Taurus has a few models that have titanium slides. I agree...for CCW, lighter is better. Yes, the recoil is sharper. But, I also don't shoot my CCW for practice very often. Just every so often to keep in practice with it. I just bought a Bersa 9mm Ultra Compact that I think is an excellent gun. I'm considering it for CCW, but...the slide is very heavy. My first thought when I got it was "I wonder what it would cost to machine a slide from titanium for this thing?" So I'm with you on the lighter slide idea...

Robert

 

[omega]

At some point, the gunmakers will come up with a pistol that slips by the Transportation Safety Authority (if they haven't already) and then all political hell will break loose.

It's probably a better idea if they don't.

 

[David the Gnome]

That was one of the problems I was taking into consideration, Omega. There would still be enough metal for a metal detector to work. The barrel has to be made out of metal and as we've been talking about, the slide would still need a steel frame to give the polymer structural integrity. It's something that would definitely hamper the creation of a polymer slide, just look back at all the hoopla the first polymer handguns created when the media got ahold of them.

 

[MGMike]

Weight is necessary to retard slide velocity in recoil. Otherwise the pistol will pound itself to pieces in short order.

Perceptive people will note that when some model of semi-auto pistol is upgunned from 9mm to .40S&W, the slide is usually beefed up to add mass.

M

 

[madmag]

Perceptive people will note that when some model of semi-auto pistol is upgunned from 9mm to .40S&W, the slide is usually beefed up to add mass.

I guess I disagree a little. With locked breech you can adjust the design to handle lighter and shorter slides. I think the main reason for .40S&W being heavier is just more stress with that round compared to 9mm.

But I said disagree a little. No doubt that adding mass can effect recoil....hence HI-Points with no locked breech.

 

[omega]

That was one of the problems I was taking into consideration, Omega. There would still be enough metal for a metal detector to work. The barrel has to be made out of metal and as we've been talking about, the slide would still need a steel frame to give the polymer structural integrity. It's something that would definitely hamper the creation of a polymer slide, just look back at all the hoopla the first polymer handguns created when the media got ahold of them.

In the next year or so the gun wizards will have developed a ceramic barrel, and then off to the gun control races we go. Giddy up.

 

[Russ5924]

The thing I don't understand is they went to Polymer to save weight. Then they end up with double stack magazines that can hold 17 to 19 rounds and put the weight right back on. So now you have a pistol that weighs the same

 

[Chalupa]

Some make them heavier with zamak-3

 

[Walt Sherrill]

The thing I don't understand is they went to Polymer to save weight. Then they end up with double stack magazines that can hold 17 to 19 rounds and put the weight right back on. So now you have a pistol that weighs the same.

Some steel guns have equally high-cap mags...

I'm not sure that they went to polymer just to save weight. Part of the move to polymer was that it's a material that is easier and cheaper to work than steel. (If you have a good design and know how to build it...)

And, if you don't want to load the extra rounds, you haven't added any weight. (Most folks would be happy to have an extra 2-4 rounds while keeping the weight the same.)

 

[James K]

Several pistols have been made with very light breechblocks (I can't call them slides), notably the old .35 and .32 S&W pistols. They had to make the recoil spring so stiff there was a mechanism to disconnect it from the slide so the first round could be chambered.

Aluminum slides have been tried also, in locked breech pistols. With insufficient mass to resist recoil, the slides soon battered themselves into scrap. If the spring weight is increased, they batter on return to battery.

Jim

 

[madmag]

I think if you keep other things equal....same caliber, weight, barrel length, etc, then polymer will be lighter than steel by a significant amount. Now allow frame using the same rule will be close to the polymer for weight.

 

[Kaiser T]

ZAMAK-3 Slides

It is understood that Hi-Point and Walther P22 slides are made of ZAMAK-3. Can anyone quote the 'official' (company) source which says that the P22 slides are made of this material?

 

[KurtC]

Designing a semi-auto is more science than art. Everything is about timing the movement of the slide to work reliably. For every factor you change, six more factors have to be adjusted. It is an engineering nightmare just to shorten a slide, let alone lighten one.

A synthetic slide is surely possible for .380 and lesser cartridges, but it becomes very difficult for 9mm and above.

P.S. Polymer frames are a boost to high capacity pistols because if your carrying the same end weight, most folks prefer ammo to gun.