why do they hold them like that?

[Rifleman1776]

When we see American fighting men using their ARs, they hold them with the bottom tip of the butt barely touching their shoulder. Sometimes they hold with the butt resting on top of the clavical. Very non-conventional in my frame of reference.
Why do they hold them like that?

 

[44 AMP]

I understand that's how they are training them nowdays. Something about rapid target aquisition. It also has to do with the fact that the AR has virtually no recoil (compared to previous service arms), and the fact that most of the time our guys are wearing some kind of body armor, which prevents a traditional mounting of the rifle.

At least, that's my best guess.

 

[Baba Louie]

Sights up to eye level as opposed to lowering head to stock. Just like the elbows in/down not all spread eagled. I learn from my son in law (USMC) as in young dog teaching old dog.

 

[azredhawk44]

Bringing the buttstock "up" keeps the head from canting when getting a good cheek weld. When you cant your head, it introduces a tendency to twist the rifle to fit your altered balance and perceptions. Not a big deal at 50 yards, but it will screw up your shot at 200+ yards.

Shooting from standing or seated/kneeling, you put the "toe" of the stock into your shoulder. This brings the stock up so it meets your cheek, rather than bringing your cheek down (and twisting your neck) to find the stock.

Shooting from prone, you put the "heel" of the stock into your shoulder. This is because when you shoot from prone, you are essentially pointing the rifle "up" according to your body already.

While I wouldn't recommend it for a .338 Lapua or .458 WinMag, I routinely shoot my .308 M14 the same way as my 5.56 AR-15. Toe in the shoulder for standing/seated, heel in the shoulder for prone. Lots of Garand shooters do it just fine with .30-06, also.


However, whether you put the toe or the heel of the butt into your shoulder pocket, make sure it's the POCKET. Not the collar bone. The meat of your shoulder takes the impact of the recoil. Not the fragile shoulder bones.

 

[THEZACHARIAS]

90% of it is body armor, especially with the older style interceptor vests (which are much thicker, heavier and bulkier). The newer style armor carriers help reduce the bulk, but you still have a full size ESAPI plate to contend with.

The result is an option of either moving the stock outwards onto the edge of your shoulder (where its more likely to slip off), or pulling it down/into the upper edge of the plate where its less likely to slip off. Adjustable stocks help the issue some, but they aren't as widespread as most of us would like.

 

[tmlynch]

I have understood that part of the reason that the rifle is held closer to centerline is to maximize presentation of body armor toward the threat. Moving the rifle butt more to the shoulder can make you turn so the arm-hole of the body armor is more exposed.

Someone who knows a lot more about it will correct me if I am mistaken.

Tom

 

[attila787]

That's the way I was thought, in the corps.

 

[shredder4286]

i was taught to do what feels best in the army. our NCO's have always been open minded, with the understanding that there is no single method that works for everyone. when clearing rooms, i have my collapsible buttstock all the way closed, and when at the range, i have it 3/4 out.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Thanks for the update. Us old timers sometimes get stuck in the rut of thinking there is only one way to do things. 'stuff' changes. It still looks strange to me.

 

[SPEMack618]

That's the guy in the Smokey the Bear hat said to do.

We learned "short-stocking" in AIT. While somewhat cumbersome at first, and going against everything Pops taught me, it is rather effective in MOUT situations especially while you are fully kitted up and carrying an M-4 with a multi-position stock.

Heck, apparently, the SAS teaches their guys to push thier weapons to the full extent of the sling and shoot like that in CQB type situations.

 

[pythagorean]

You present less target to the enemy with the rifle higher up while behind barriers.

 

[Cameron Ferriere]

Buddy of mine in the army with little outside experience in guns scoped the hell out of himself trying to shoot his father in laws .30-06 rifle like an AR. We all got a good laugh out of it anyways!!