Why can the Sig 232 be imported and the PPK not

R

RsqVet

New member
Ok folks a little triva searh here ---- Why can the Sig 232 380 be imported and the PPK not (for civilian sales)?

I know it has something to do with the gun controll act of 1968 that regulates imports and also was if I am informed correctly an attempt to eliminate so called Sat. night specals A.K.A. pocket pistols the bane of the gun banners of the day, and as I understand it this act is also responsible for the presance of the "Thumb rest" on the Glock 26/27.

So they have a buch of rules and specefications for imported pistols that seperate the good from evil I get that. What I want to know specifically here what features or design elements puts the Sig over the kosher line and keeps the PPK out causing the need for licensed factories here?

Anyone know? Did Sig luck out as a new (in the 70's) design while Walther as an older design got screwed?

Thanks

Leo
 
M

mtnboomer

New member
Walther simply put a PPK slide on a PP frame and called it the PPK/S and it met all requirements for importation. :confused:
 
M

MoW

Moderator
Not sure specifically about the P232, but I do know that the SIG P250 can't be imported at this time. :eek: :confused:
 
C

clu

New member
I think it has to do with the BATF points system a firearm must meet a predetermined number of points for importation (I used to have a list of what features constituted various numbers of points). The size of the firearm affects the number of points it earns, firearms that have what are considered "sporting and target" features earn more points if you own a Glock you may notice the full size models have smooth triggers while the compact models have strange serrations on the sides this counts as a serrated (read "target") trigger which earns more points than a smooth (read "combat") style trigger. Thumb rests also earn bonus points as do adjustable sights if I remember correctly all compact Glocks leave the Austrian factory with adjustable sights for importation purposes and are replaced with fixed sights once they arrive in the US. This is why you see many milsurp and new manufacture makarovs retrofitted with thumbrest grips and or adjustable sights, and is also why Beretta set up its first factoy in the US here in maryland to produce the 950 compact model without adding alterations making them unsuitable for their intended purpose and saving manufacturing costs etc. I believe the Sig gets by because it is slightly larger than the PPK, I believe the Sig is shipped minus the slide which is US manufactured etc. On a side note at SHOT this year I believe Walther is introducing a US made PPK manufactured by Smith and Wesson with improvements (enlarged/strengthened breech face, extended tang, and beefier recoil spring).
 
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C

CraZkid

Moderator
I was under the impression that the PPK did not meet minimum height requirements to be imported. So they added extra length to the clips, called it the PPK/S and sold them to every mall-ninja that ever watched a 007 movie.
 
J

JB in SC

New member
The German and French made PPK's were only available to law enforcement officers after the GCA of 1968. So, as noted, when Interarms resumed importing the Walthers they were PP frames with PPK slides (PPK/S), added adjustable type sights, extended magazines, and thumbrest grips in order to meet the "points" system set up by the CGA of 1968 to control imports of "non sporting" pistols. Same situation with the German TPH, no longer available to the general public under the importation requirements set by the GCA.

I don't recall the exact date, but Interarms was licensed to manufacture the PPK, PPK/S and TPH in the US. I believe they were made in Alabama. They had some serious manufacturing problems (IIRC, problems with the investment casting equipment) and ceased manufacture. A few years back S&W was licensed to manufacture the pistols. Cheaper to CNC, et al in the US than in Germany, thus the importation by Walther DE.

Thats more or less a brief history as I can recall.

I was hoping that Walther would license S&W to manufacture the TPH again, but am not holding my breath.
 
R

RsqVet

New member
thanks guys

Thanks for the info guys,

Did not realize the reason for PPK/s vs. PPK.

Currnet Sig 232 Stainless anyway is all made in Germany, proof marks on frame, slide and barrel.

Sig P250, looks like a nice polymer frame? pistol. Anyone know the reason it can't come in?

Despite all the bad reputation the Interarms made PPK in 32 ACP I had worked well, though the sights were terrible. Sold it off a few years ago and went with a Sig 232 because the sights a better, and can be had as night sights, plus I like the slick slide / decocker a little better.

I'd be in line for a TPH as well, heck if I saw an interarms one at the right price I might be tempted, more for intrest's sake than any real need.

Leo
 
I

InToItTRX

New member
Yeah my Walther PPK/s is a late 70's model PPK/s from Germany, I think Walther stopped making them in the late 70's or early 80's.
 
J

JB in SC

New member
RsqVet,

I am supposing you are talking the .22 LR version rather than the .25 ACP.

If you do run across one, pull both grip panels off. Check out the frame machining on both sides, some of the last ones were shipped with some frames almost completely milled through. I suspect a CNC milling error. The pistols involved will not engage the safety properly and may not fire DA every time. The last new one I examined was defective.

Also, pistols shipped in the black plastic box with two magazines have typically been very reliable with most good quality .22 ammo. The early ones had some magazine problems, they were shipped in a small cardboard box with one magazine.

I've owned five, so can speak with some experience. I would be very cautious when buying one.

I saw a TPH in a local gunshop a few months back @ $360, a pretty reasonable price for a used one. This one was in good shape, but someone had it on hold and eventually bought it.

Best,
JB
 
R

RsqVet

New member
JB -- Thanks

JB thanks for the heads up, I would not normally remove grips unless it's a realy old gun and I want to get a sense of what lurks inside. Price you quote on the TPH is the ball park of ones I have seen around here, frankly I'd have to find one pretty cheap (read 100 or so less than avarage price) to be really tempted, there are just so many other pistols in line infront of the TPH on my want list.

Leo
 
J

JB in SC

New member
Leo,

Agreed, the TPH is a neat little pistol and typically very accurate. I see them used for anywhere from $350 to as high as $500. No way am I going to pay $500 for a used pistol that was $350-75 new.

I just bought another Seecamp .32, a better "pocket" gun in a better caliber, IMO.

The .25 TPH is actually more reliable than the .22, but is pretty difficult to find. Especially the blue versions.

Regards,
JB
 
H

Handy

Moderator
TPH prices very enormously based on country of production. Given the problems with the US made guns, this seems warranted.
 
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