why bother with Mak or walther
- Thread starter Hardin
- Start date
Alaska Roy
New member
Hiya Hardin, Long Time!-
Walther has several 9mms but I get what yer about. The KelTec is crap for accuracy beyond seven yards max, just my opinion. Roy
Walther has several 9mms but I get what yer about. The KelTec is crap for accuracy beyond seven yards max, just my opinion. Roy
My Makarov is accurate, reliable and cheap. Even the ammo is cheap. You can now get Russian JHP ammo for a $115/1000. True there are now smaller lighter guns on the market that fire 9mm or .40, but the Mak has been around a long time and it works. I have never questioned its reliability or longevity. I would be willing to bet that if you went to the range with a Kel-Tec and a Mak and a truckload of ammo that the Mak would shoot more rounds continuously before failing (if it ever did!).
I like the Kel-Tec's, but to me the Mak is a much more solid gun and is well worth the $100 LESS that I spent on it!
I like the Kel-Tec's, but to me the Mak is a much more solid gun and is well worth the $100 LESS that I spent on it!
Hardin,
Not ALL my handguns are for Tactical, or Self Defense. Some are just for fun! My Mak falls into the later category. It's just a neat little gun that's a blast to shoot. But, if I ever needed it to safe my life, it will feed and fire each and every time! Not sure if you can say that about a Keltec.
Not ALL my handguns are for Tactical, or Self Defense. Some are just for fun! My Mak falls into the later category. It's just a neat little gun that's a blast to shoot. But, if I ever needed it to safe my life, it will feed and fire each and every time! Not sure if you can say that about a Keltec.
I agree with boing and Gusgus on their points.
True, the Makarov isn't chambered for a manstopper caliber (whatever that is), and if I had my choice of which guns to defend myself or my family with, I'd choose a bigger caliber, preferably a rifle caliber, but that doesn't mean the Makarov isn't worthy of consideration. The ammo's cheap, the gun is accurate and affordable, it's a heckuva lot of fun to shoot, and I love it.
I don't know much of anything about the Kel-Tec, maybe it is also a good gun. But I have my doubts that it can be more fun to shoot than my Makarov.
BTW, the following link will take you to a place that, if you can make it to one of their gun show appearances, sells Wolf 9x18 ammo for $97.50/1000. Of course, if it must be shipped, it'll be more expensive. They don't yet have their 2001 gun show schedule up, so you'll have to e-mail them for the dates.
http://www.miwallcorp.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv
DAL
True, the Makarov isn't chambered for a manstopper caliber (whatever that is), and if I had my choice of which guns to defend myself or my family with, I'd choose a bigger caliber, preferably a rifle caliber, but that doesn't mean the Makarov isn't worthy of consideration. The ammo's cheap, the gun is accurate and affordable, it's a heckuva lot of fun to shoot, and I love it.
I don't know much of anything about the Kel-Tec, maybe it is also a good gun. But I have my doubts that it can be more fun to shoot than my Makarov.
BTW, the following link will take you to a place that, if you can make it to one of their gun show appearances, sells Wolf 9x18 ammo for $97.50/1000. Of course, if it must be shipped, it'll be more expensive. They don't yet have their 2001 gun show schedule up, so you'll have to e-mail them for the dates.
http://www.miwallcorp.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv
DAL
After reading all I could about the Keltec here and in other places, I went on a quest to check them all out. They are so popular it was hard to find them but I finally located a few to actually handle. After reading so many glowing reports about these little weapons, I was very dissapointed in the way they felt in my hand. I also very much disliked the trigger. I found them to be basically unpleasent little pistols. I'm much rather carry the MAK or my Bersa. I don't very much care for the Walther, either, because it is just too "edgy" for me. It has too many sharp surfaces and I found that if you don't hold it just right,(or grab it in an emergency), the slide will slice your hand up. The MAK and the Bersa are well built, small, user friendly, comfortable pistols which are easily carried IWB.
There have been thousands of posts about "man stopping loads" here and elsewhere but ultimatly I believe that any realiable, accurate pistol will be better than nothing. Sure, carrying a 1911 is optimum but sometimes it's just not an option. I've also discovered that small can be "too small" in some cases as with the Keltec.
I guess it just comes down to the decision of the owner/buyer. It you like it, great! Liking certain pistols and rifles, like anything else, is subjective. Whatever floats your boat!
Have a great New Year!
Rome
There have been thousands of posts about "man stopping loads" here and elsewhere but ultimatly I believe that any realiable, accurate pistol will be better than nothing. Sure, carrying a 1911 is optimum but sometimes it's just not an option. I've also discovered that small can be "too small" in some cases as with the Keltec.
I guess it just comes down to the decision of the owner/buyer. It you like it, great! Liking certain pistols and rifles, like anything else, is subjective. Whatever floats your boat!
Have a great New Year!
Rome
how reliable must it be, when probably succeed or fail with one shot?
you cant get more than 300 ft lbs out of a blowback 9x18,, and most loads are more like 200 ft lbs, with no expansion. You can get over 450 ftlbs out of the Keltec 9.Can do most of the realistic practice with the Taurus PT22, lots cheaper than surplus ball. Personally,, i prefer a chopped Kahr or Sig P239 in 357 Sig, with 650 ft lbs, 60 grs at 2200 fps, temporary cavity damage like a 22 Hornet rifle, AP performance, and guaranteed separate wound tracks from the 3 segment prefrag. That's much more likely to suffice than .45 jhp factory loads.
you cant get more than 300 ft lbs out of a blowback 9x18,, and most loads are more like 200 ft lbs, with no expansion. You can get over 450 ftlbs out of the Keltec 9.Can do most of the realistic practice with the Taurus PT22, lots cheaper than surplus ball. Personally,, i prefer a chopped Kahr or Sig P239 in 357 Sig, with 650 ft lbs, 60 grs at 2200 fps, temporary cavity damage like a 22 Hornet rifle, AP performance, and guaranteed separate wound tracks from the 3 segment prefrag. That's much more likely to suffice than .45 jhp factory loads.
I owned the Keltec and carried it a while, but gave it up after I came to the conclusion that it would never be as reliable as it ought to be, too many jams. Great idea, poorly executed. Also very inaccurate.
The Mak on the other hand is a most reliable handgun(in its Russian&Bulgarian versions) and accurate. Yes, power wise it's no 9x19, but better than a .380.
The Mak on the other hand is a most reliable handgun(in its Russian&Bulgarian versions) and accurate. Yes, power wise it's no 9x19, but better than a .380.
Badger Arms
New member
I find both the Makarov and the KT to be comfortable. They were designed for two different things. When you've got an AK-47 and your neighbor has an RPK, what do you need a large, powerful, or high capacity weapon for? The KT was designed for concealed carry, not targets. And don't give me that 7 yard BS, you aren't going to be shooting beyond that in the vast majority of concealed carry cases and my KelTec can hit a 9" pie pan at 25 yards with ME behind the gun every time. Put a pie plate over your head or chest and you'll get my point. All I really care about is whether or not it will go bang when I jab it in the BG's belly!
In truth, both guns are good. The Makarov IS significantly more accurate and reliable than the KT can be. I've never carried one concealed, but I'd sure as heck feel secure with the Makarov. Besides, the 9mm isn't 'much more powerful' in any incarnation. Let's not talk about paper here, let's talk stopping power. You might squeeze a few percentage points statistically with the 9mm, but I'd rather be able to place my shots reliably all other things being equal.
In truth, both guns are good. The Makarov IS significantly more accurate and reliable than the KT can be. I've never carried one concealed, but I'd sure as heck feel secure with the Makarov. Besides, the 9mm isn't 'much more powerful' in any incarnation. Let's not talk about paper here, let's talk stopping power. You might squeeze a few percentage points statistically with the 9mm, but I'd rather be able to place my shots reliably all other things being equal.
I have both a Mak and a Kel Tec, and like them both. I got the Mak because it was just too great a bargain at $110 to walk away from. For me, the Mak is sort of an 'ace in the hole' gun. It's fun and cheap to shoot, but it would also make a good backup gun to have around. I have to admit it is also kind of interesting to have a pistol that was made in Russia, and a variant of which was/is used by their military, and extensively in Europe as well. I'm not a military buff, but I find the Mak's pedigree to be interesting.
On the subject of the KelTec, I find it to be an amazingly small, light, and highly pointable gun that, with a set of Uncle Mike's slip-on grips and a finger extension on the mag, fits my hand perfectly. It is amazing to me that they have taken such simple, inexpensive components and assembled them into such a little engineering marvel. I also think mine has the best DAO trigger I've found on anything. Mine is also reliable. I got rid of my Beretta 9000S DAO because it didn't fit my hand well enough, and most of all, I could not control the long, rough, hard DAO trigger well enough to be confident with it. Yes, the Beretta was a high quality gun, but the KelTec has a much smoother and shorter pull and I can control it better. Any DAO requires practice and discipline to use well.
-10CFR
On the subject of the KelTec, I find it to be an amazingly small, light, and highly pointable gun that, with a set of Uncle Mike's slip-on grips and a finger extension on the mag, fits my hand perfectly. It is amazing to me that they have taken such simple, inexpensive components and assembled them into such a little engineering marvel. I also think mine has the best DAO trigger I've found on anything. Mine is also reliable. I got rid of my Beretta 9000S DAO because it didn't fit my hand well enough, and most of all, I could not control the long, rough, hard DAO trigger well enough to be confident with it. Yes, the Beretta was a high quality gun, but the KelTec has a much smoother and shorter pull and I can control it better. Any DAO requires practice and discipline to use well.
-10CFR
uh, ever shoot kevlar with 223 sp?
with high enough speed, even lead cored slugs go thru like it was cheese. 22 Hornet pierces it, too. Make the slug out of solid copper or zinc, and a 50 gr, 2000 fps 9mm pierces, too. If it is hollowptd and the nose is slit back to the grease groove it will definetely break into 3 pcs at such hi speed impact with flesh.
with high enough speed, even lead cored slugs go thru like it was cheese. 22 Hornet pierces it, too. Make the slug out of solid copper or zinc, and a 50 gr, 2000 fps 9mm pierces, too. If it is hollowptd and the nose is slit back to the grease groove it will definetely break into 3 pcs at such hi speed impact with flesh.
Christopher II
New member
It's not exactly common, but enough BGs wear soft body armor that it's worth preparing for.
Later,
Chris
Later,
Chris
I own a Makarov. I *used to* own a P11.
The P11 ejected into my face. Heavy long trigger meant accuracy OR speed were possible, not both. My first choice is the Kahr P9 (great trigger, 9x19) but Makarov is my second choice from what I currently own. It is flat, points well, 100% reliable. 9x18 is marginal but it is a trade-off I am willing to take. In fact, I'd carry a Govt.380 over many 9x19 compacts or oven some .32 mid-size guns.
The reasoning is that I am willing to take an ineffective hit over a near-miss with a more potent caliber. My main requirements for a fighting guns are: reliable, ergonomic. Powerful caliber is a bonus, not a requirement. For that reason, I'd carry a .32 Colt Hammerless 1908 over some DAO jammamatics.
Makarov works. Walther...in .380 it hurts to shoot.
The P11 ejected into my face. Heavy long trigger meant accuracy OR speed were possible, not both. My first choice is the Kahr P9 (great trigger, 9x19) but Makarov is my second choice from what I currently own. It is flat, points well, 100% reliable. 9x18 is marginal but it is a trade-off I am willing to take. In fact, I'd carry a Govt.380 over many 9x19 compacts or oven some .32 mid-size guns.
The reasoning is that I am willing to take an ineffective hit over a near-miss with a more potent caliber. My main requirements for a fighting guns are: reliable, ergonomic. Powerful caliber is a bonus, not a requirement. For that reason, I'd carry a .32 Colt Hammerless 1908 over some DAO jammamatics.
Makarov works. Walther...in .380 it hurts to shoot.
Slojim: No, I didn't do a fluff&buff. My attitude about guns is that they should work 100% out of the box. You don't need to mess with a Mak or a Glock. Others could add their own favorite brands. Actually, I have come to the conclusion that for me at least the Glock 26 is the way to go.I carry in a pocket holster(srong side front pocket in chinos) or in a hip holster. Like I said before the Keltek is a good idea that needs to be better executed.