Why are cartridge cases always made of brass?
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Poodleshooter
New member
Some of them are. It's usually seen in surplus ammo such as the "Wolf" brand. Problem is that steel isn't ductile (or is it malleable) enough to expand on firing, absorbing some of the shock of the gas expansion, and then contract enough to extract easily from the chamber. Also, I think it's harder to make steel cases. Rust is another factor, though lacquer cures that. Also, steel is not really reloadable due to a combo of the factors mentioned above.
Jason Demond
New member
Brass can be used over lots of times. CCI Blazer ammo is not brass cased.
Cases have been made from various metals (steel, brass, aluminum for some) but brass is still the best choice. The case does a bit more than just hold everything together. It forms a gas seal when the cartridge is fired by expanding out and pressing tightly against the chamber walls. After firing it has enough elasticity to return to a smaller size (not as small as original in most cases) to allow easy ejection. Brass is about the only reasonable choice that is ductile (easily formed without cracking) enough to be reused. Steel and aluminum cases work fine ONCE but can't normally be reused. Some steel cases do work, at least for a while, but a lot of them tend to "work harden" and then crack.
44rugerfan
New member
Brass is more ductile than steel. This means that you can resize brass shells that expand due to the extreme stress placed on them during firing. You will have a heck of a time resizing a steel shell. Brass also will not rust, and although I have heard alot of argueing on this point, since steel is "harder" than brass it will wear out the components that will come in contact with it faster. Granted, your pistol might slip on round 12,101 instead of round 12,587, but it will still happen faster.
P.S. Cartridges are not always made of brass. There are a few that are made of steel, and are indeed cheaper than their brass counterparts.
P.S. Cartridges are not always made of brass. There are a few that are made of steel, and are indeed cheaper than their brass counterparts.
In the very first years after the civil war when breech loading rifles first came on the scene, cases where also made of copper and various copper alloys. These cases were ductile enough, but didn't have the "spring" and strength of brass. They would often stick to the chamber and then rip apart, either the whole head or at the extractor, leaving a jambed, useless rifle.
Brass is an amazing material for our purposes. It took the old makers a while to come up with the the solution.
It is also a limitation on firearms design: The brass case limits the maximum pressures that a rifle can be designed to withstand more than any other factor.
Brass is an amazing material for our purposes. It took the old makers a while to come up with the the solution.
It is also a limitation on firearms design: The brass case limits the maximum pressures that a rifle can be designed to withstand more than any other factor.
Drundel, brass will spark, just not as quickly or as badly as steel. Many years ago when we were commissioning a new offshore oil and gas production platform one of the operators ordered brass hammers and wrenches. I approved the order without looking at what was on it, and when they came in I almost died when I saw the price 
. I asked him about it and he said its because they don't spark.
Well about 2 years later we had a minor blowout on a satellite well and I was on it with 2 of the men from The Red Adair Co. Inc. It was blowing, but not burning. We needed to hammer on a coupling and I told the blowout specialist that we had some brass hamners. He just laughed and said they never use them. They still spark, and are very bad about chipping, and throwing the chips in eyes etc. A few days later I experimented with both steel and brass hammers in a darkroom.......sure enough el-sparko! Both of them. Told the operator if he ever spent that much for brass tools again he was going swimming!
. I asked him about it and he said its because they don't spark.Well about 2 years later we had a minor blowout on a satellite well and I was on it with 2 of the men from The Red Adair Co. Inc. It was blowing, but not burning. We needed to hammer on a coupling and I told the blowout specialist that we had some brass hamners. He just laughed and said they never use them. They still spark, and are very bad about chipping, and throwing the chips in eyes etc. A few days later I experimented with both steel and brass hammers in a darkroom.......sure enough el-sparko! Both of them. Told the operator if he ever spent that much for brass tools again he was going swimming!
EODguy,
Quite correct. Part of the problem is that brass and bronze are sort of generic names for a lot of different alloys, with similar but not identical properties. The beryllium/copper alloy tools are NON SPARKING, we used them for working around battery chargers and LOX plants as well (neither area is a real nice place for sparks!)
Quite correct. Part of the problem is that brass and bronze are sort of generic names for a lot of different alloys, with similar but not identical properties. The beryllium/copper alloy tools are NON SPARKING, we used them for working around battery chargers and LOX plants as well (neither area is a real nice place for sparks!)
Look ma, no rust!
Steel or aluminum cases, IE: Wolf and CCI Blazer are incredibly hard to resize and will most often break your tools doing so unless they are carbide. A big benefit of brass, is that brass does NOT RUST! So it can be stored under quite adverse conditions and as long as the seal is good, and the powder kept dry, will still go boom 100 years after it is manufactured. I have fired some really old (1940’s & 1950’s) brass cased ammo that worked just as well as the day it came from the factory. I would hate to see what a steel cased round would look like after about 50-60 years.
In Liberty,
Chulain
Steel or aluminum cases, IE: Wolf and CCI Blazer are incredibly hard to resize and will most often break your tools doing so unless they are carbide. A big benefit of brass, is that brass does NOT RUST! So it can be stored under quite adverse conditions and as long as the seal is good, and the powder kept dry, will still go boom 100 years after it is manufactured. I have fired some really old (1940’s & 1950’s) brass cased ammo that worked just as well as the day it came from the factory. I would hate to see what a steel cased round would look like after about 50-60 years.
In Liberty,
Chulain
The beryllium/copper alloy tools are NON SPARKING, we used them for working around battery chargers and LOX plants as well (neither area is a real nice place for sparks!)................Most certainly not a good area for sparks! Just think Bob if you would take the LOX and the hydrogen gas that a battery gives off.......Presto....Rocket Fuel . I am not sure about the composition of the tools we had but the reason for the cost was because they were supposed to be "non spraking". Of course there were a lot of times that some of our suppliers fudged on either quality or price on items we ordered. It seemed that when they realized they were doing business with a major oil company that gave them a liscense to steal!I will admit that those they sent were a lot less likely to spark, and the sparks were not nearly as much as a steel alloy hammer hitting a steel "Uniflow" coupling hammer union, but when we tested them in the dark there were still sparks visible. That is why (along with advice from Raymond Henry of the Red Adair Company) that I refused to order any more for use in the Class 1 Division 1 and division 2 areas of the paltform. I may have been wrong, because it is a possibility that the sparks that we could see when we tested them in a completly dark room may not have been intense enough to ignite a hazardous atmosphere. I do know that there was only one case where a natural gas fire occured from tool usage (in our company anyway) and that was an idiot that was using an air grinder powered by NATURAL GAS instead of air and grinding steel.......a candidate for a Darwin award. Needless to say he was relieved of his duties!
. I am not sure about the composition of the tools we had but the reason for the cost was because they were supposed to be "non spraking". Of course there were a lot of times that some of our suppliers fudged on either quality or price on items we ordered. It seemed that when they realized they were doing business with a major oil company that gave them a liscense to steal!I will admit that those they sent were a lot less likely to spark, and the sparks were not nearly as much as a steel alloy hammer hitting a steel "Uniflow" coupling hammer union, but when we tested them in the dark there were still sparks visible. That is why (along with advice from Raymond Henry of the Red Adair Company) that I refused to order any more for use in the Class 1 Division 1 and division 2 areas of the paltform. I may have been wrong, because it is a possibility that the sparks that we could see when we tested them in a completly dark room may not have been intense enough to ignite a hazardous atmosphere. I do know that there was only one case where a natural gas fire occured from tool usage (in our company anyway) and that was an idiot that was using an air grinder powered by NATURAL GAS instead of air and grinding steel.......a candidate for a Darwin award. Needless to say he was relieved of his duties!I used to work for a company which sold an assortment of saftey equipment, and one of our suppliers was a manufacturer of beryllium/copper non-sparking tools. I had never heard of this alloy before that, but became aquainted with it as we had serveral customers who ordered various tools quite regularly.
Some years later, I happend to make the aquaintance of a fellow shooter and gunzine writer. On one visit, he showed me what I thought was one of the most interesting guns I've ever seen. It was a Safari Arms 1911, .45ACP, a special limited run IPSC version (IIRC.) What made the gun truly unique, though, was the fact that it was made almost entirely from beryllium/copper. I'm not sure about the barrel and internal parts, but the frame/slide were definitely composed of this alloy.
I've always kind of chuckled about it as being just the thing you need for "non-sparking shooting in an inflammable atmosphere." Great gun to have if you encounter a bunch of gang-bangers while doing an interior inspection of a 30,000 gallon gasoline holding tank.
Some years later, I happend to make the aquaintance of a fellow shooter and gunzine writer. On one visit, he showed me what I thought was one of the most interesting guns I've ever seen. It was a Safari Arms 1911, .45ACP, a special limited run IPSC version (IIRC.) What made the gun truly unique, though, was the fact that it was made almost entirely from beryllium/copper. I'm not sure about the barrel and internal parts, but the frame/slide were definitely composed of this alloy.
I've always kind of chuckled about it as being just the thing you need for "non-sparking shooting in an inflammable atmosphere." Great gun to have if you encounter a bunch of gang-bangers while doing an interior inspection of a 30,000 gallon gasoline holding tank.
Back in the 1970s I worked for Brush Beryllium, one of the country's largest producers of beryllium copper alloys. It is definitely non sparking and has some very interesting chemical and physical properties as well.
Depending on the alloy, it can be very soft and ductile or when properly heat treated can be harder than a mother-in-law's heart. For years, Charter Arms made all their firing pins out of BeCu because given the alloy they used, the pins were supposed to be "unbreakable". Using the "number 25" alloy for a gun frame and slide makes sense due to the fact that it can be hardened just like steel and has a nice dark bronze color.
The bad part about machining beryllium is its toxicity. The stuff is more carcinogenic than Marlboro Reds.
Viejo
Depending on the alloy, it can be very soft and ductile or when properly heat treated can be harder than a mother-in-law's heart. For years, Charter Arms made all their firing pins out of BeCu because given the alloy they used, the pins were supposed to be "unbreakable". Using the "number 25" alloy for a gun frame and slide makes sense due to the fact that it can be hardened just like steel and has a nice dark bronze color.
The bad part about machining beryllium is its toxicity. The stuff is more carcinogenic than Marlboro Reds.
Viejo
VIEJO, just out of curosity because its too late to send em back now , does $250 for an 8# sledge hammer and $180 for a 10" crescent wrench sound about right for beryllium copper alloy tools? That is what the invoice amount was for the ones I blew the roof over. Also in a completly dark room can one still see small sparks if a hard steel (4000 series steel) object is struck with a beryllium copper alloy hammer? One other thing.......that hammer was hard ( but not as hard as my mother-in-laws heart........ceramic can't be made that hard )but it still chipped after some use......do you think it was beryllium copper alloy or did the "Big T" get screwed again? Oh by the way those were 1985 prices, not todays!
, does $250 for an 8# sledge hammer and $180 for a 10" crescent wrench sound about right for beryllium copper alloy tools? That is what the invoice amount was for the ones I blew the roof over. Also in a completly dark room can one still see small sparks if a hard steel (4000 series steel) object is struck with a beryllium copper alloy hammer? One other thing.......that hammer was hard ( but not as hard as my mother-in-laws heart........ceramic can't be made that hard )but it still chipped after some use......do you think it was beryllium copper alloy or did the "Big T" get screwed again? Oh by the way those were 1985 prices, not todays!Jack O'Connor cases ...
Herodotus said: "It is also a limitation on firearms design: The brass case limits the maximum pressures that a rifle can be designed to withstand more than any other factor"
I remember Jack O'Connor came to the same conclusion, and actually had a line of cases for sale that had a steel head and the rest of the case was brass. The head was threaded and screwed into the brass part with the body and neck. I think the heads were supposed to last a long time and the brass part was replaced when needed.
Why can I remember useless stuff like this but can't find my car keys?
Herodotus said: "It is also a limitation on firearms design: The brass case limits the maximum pressures that a rifle can be designed to withstand more than any other factor"
I remember Jack O'Connor came to the same conclusion, and actually had a line of cases for sale that had a steel head and the rest of the case was brass. The head was threaded and screwed into the brass part with the body and neck. I think the heads were supposed to last a long time and the brass part was replaced when needed.
Why can I remember useless stuff like this but can't find my car keys?
Custer and copper cases...
I think i read where the Indians reported at the battle of Little Bighorn (Custer's Last Stand) that the soldiers died using the, "Gun of the Hand" (i.e. handguns) because their rifles failed to function because of the copper casings. My understanding was that Custer mandated his officers buy brass cased ammo for their pistols explicity for that reason.
(Edit... duh... Thanks 4V50 Gary, i suppose i should read the entire thread first!)
I think i read where the Indians reported at the battle of Little Bighorn (Custer's Last Stand) that the soldiers died using the, "Gun of the Hand" (i.e. handguns) because their rifles failed to function because of the copper casings. My understanding was that Custer mandated his officers buy brass cased ammo for their pistols explicity for that reason.
(Edit... duh... Thanks 4V50 Gary, i suppose i should read the entire thread first!
)