Andrew Wyatt
New member
it looks kinda odd in that pic, but it's only when you look at this one that you get the real purpose behind the design.
yes, it's a gun purposely designed to fit inside a box. whoop de doo.
who would buy this gun?
- Thread starter Andrew Wyatt
- Start date
it looks kinda odd in that pic, but it's only when you look at this one that you get the real purpose behind the design.
yes, it's a gun purposely designed to fit inside a box. whoop de doo.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Not I.
Jason Demond
New member
Isn't it some IDPA or IPSC rule, that a gun must fit in a certain size box?
Jason Demond
New member
I guess I found my answer.
The International Practical Shooting Federation (IPSC) requirements for "Modified Divsion" mandate that a competitor's pistol fit entirely within a box of 225mm x 150mm x 45mm interior dimension.http://www.sviguns.com/swpn/swpn.html
The International Practical Shooting Federation (IPSC) requirements for "Modified Divsion" mandate that a competitor's pistol fit entirely within a box of 225mm x 150mm x 45mm interior dimension.http://www.sviguns.com/swpn/swpn.html
Andrew Wyatt
New member
it's probably because I'm not a gamesman and all of my guns are weapons, but I quite frankly find that gun and the theory behind it offensive. Why spend that much money on a pistol that only has utility within the very narrow confines of one class in IPSC competiton?
Obviously not any sort of competitor...
"Why spend that much money on a pistol that only has utility within the very narrow confines of one class in IPSC competiton[sic]?"
Because IN that class, it BEATS the competition. In any sport there are classes, defined by rules. If you decided to try Formula 1 racing, would you whine about how the car doesn't reach the drive-through window at Dunkin Donuts?
"Why spend that much money on a pistol that only has utility within the very narrow confines of one class in IPSC competiton[sic]?"
Because IN that class, it BEATS the competition. In any sport there are classes, defined by rules. If you decided to try Formula 1 racing, would you whine about how the car doesn't reach the drive-through window at Dunkin Donuts?
Brad Johnson
New member
It's similar to Murphy's law.
I will preface this post by saying that I am NOT pointing fingers at anyone. I am making general comments on something that has bugged me for years. Bottom line is to not take this personally, I'm just venting a little.
Just like the ever (un)popular Murphy who stated that "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong" you can count on someone, somewhere, pushing the very limit of any prescribed rules. It's called survival of the fittest. Those with the drive and ability to take advantage of every possible opportunity usually win. Those who do not usually lose (and then complain loudly about how unfair the competition was).
Taking advantage of the stated rules is not unfair competition. It's part of a winning strategy. Not taking advantage of competition-legal opportunities is like walking around carrying a 6-shooter with only 3 cartridges in it. It's no one's fault but your own, and it only degrades the overall competition when you pitch a fit about it.
I stopped shooting local amateur competition largely because I got tired of hearing all the childish whining and moaning. Occasionally someone would come up with a neat tactical strategy that would maximize their score on a particular stage. If so, you could count on the wailing, moaning, and gnashing of teeth to last for hours. Lord forbid you should study the guy (or gal) and actually learn something from their new tactics.
Once (and only once) I made a suggestion that I thought would result in participantsd competing more against people with (presumably) similar skills and scoring potential. Hey, made sense to me - and all I wanted to do was make the competition more exiting and fun for all the participants. You would have thought I'd farted in the White House for all the ruckuss that was raised. Soooo... I shut up, went out to shoot, and promptly cleaned the clocks of all the people who had just had such a hissy fit. Man you should have heard the noise!
I guess that I place this kind of mindset into the same category as the concept of dumbing down our classroom to the lowest common denominator. It's silly, juvenile, and inherently counter-productive.
I'll shut up now.
Brad
I will preface this post by saying that I am NOT pointing fingers at anyone. I am making general comments on something that has bugged me for years. Bottom line is to not take this personally, I'm just venting a little.
Just like the ever (un)popular Murphy who stated that "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong" you can count on someone, somewhere, pushing the very limit of any prescribed rules. It's called survival of the fittest. Those with the drive and ability to take advantage of every possible opportunity usually win. Those who do not usually lose (and then complain loudly about how unfair the competition was).
Taking advantage of the stated rules is not unfair competition. It's part of a winning strategy. Not taking advantage of competition-legal opportunities is like walking around carrying a 6-shooter with only 3 cartridges in it. It's no one's fault but your own, and it only degrades the overall competition when you pitch a fit about it.
I stopped shooting local amateur competition largely because I got tired of hearing all the childish whining and moaning. Occasionally someone would come up with a neat tactical strategy that would maximize their score on a particular stage. If so, you could count on the wailing, moaning, and gnashing of teeth to last for hours. Lord forbid you should study the guy (or gal) and actually learn something from their new tactics.
Once (and only once) I made a suggestion that I thought would result in participantsd competing more against people with (presumably) similar skills and scoring potential. Hey, made sense to me - and all I wanted to do was make the competition more exiting and fun for all the participants. You would have thought I'd farted in the White House for all the ruckuss that was raised. Soooo... I shut up, went out to shoot, and promptly cleaned the clocks of all the people who had just had such a hissy fit. Man you should have heard the noise!
I guess that I place this kind of mindset into the same category as the concept of dumbing down our classroom to the lowest common denominator. It's silly, juvenile, and inherently counter-productive.
I'll shut up now.
Brad
hksigwalther
New member
Why drive a car that has no passenger space, no trunk space, no accessories, that you can only drive on a closed curcuit?
Brad,
I totally agree with you. I stopped shooting at a couple of ranges for the same reason. All the matches were just bitch fests. Even though there are no prizes at stake people just have to get every single point that they can complain to get. I like the matches where it is just a nice friendly shoot. Where people help eachother while having a friendly competition.
Andrew,
Competition is very fun and is the best way to improve gun handling techniques. You will never find better gun handlers than those who compete. You get into situations you couldnt think of. A lot of people shoot with stock stuff. Every type of competition has it's own breed of guns. Hi-power rifle is the same. It is sort of an equipment race. But whether or not someone has great equipment doen't make them good. THe best shooters are the best no matter what they use.
Personally I think the funniest looking guns are the competition 22's like Hammerli.
I totally agree with you. I stopped shooting at a couple of ranges for the same reason. All the matches were just bitch fests. Even though there are no prizes at stake people just have to get every single point that they can complain to get. I like the matches where it is just a nice friendly shoot. Where people help eachother while having a friendly competition.
Andrew,
Competition is very fun and is the best way to improve gun handling techniques. You will never find better gun handlers than those who compete. You get into situations you couldnt think of. A lot of people shoot with stock stuff. Every type of competition has it's own breed of guns. Hi-power rifle is the same. It is sort of an equipment race. But whether or not someone has great equipment doen't make them good. THe best shooters are the best no matter what they use.
Personally I think the funniest looking guns are the competition 22's like Hammerli.
Andrew Wyatt
New member
I do compete, but not in ipsc.
I don't understand why someone would compromise the utility of a firearm to just to provide an edge. I guess its because I vaule the means more than the end. or something.
I don't understand why someone would compromise the utility of a firearm to just to provide an edge. I guess its because I vaule the means more than the end. or something.
Andrew, you're missing the concept.
IPSC full-house race guns like the one pictured are to defensive carry guns as an Indy race car is to your average, grocery-getting minivan. You don't have a good place to seatbelt in a child seat in the Indy car, but by Gawd, you're a lot more competitive and have a better chance of winning the Indy 500 than with the Dodge Caravan! See the analogy?
I competed in IPSC for several years, and yes, I thought it became a total bitchfest prior to the introduction of Limited Class. The introduction of IDPA brought the competition back down to a "run-what's-on-your-nightstand" level.
The utility of these race guns isn't terribly compromised. People design and build these high-dollar lead squirtguns, from scratch, for the express purpose of shooting accurately and fast enough to win. Although they were not built with the intent of being carried for personal defense, a lot of the technology does find it's way into carry guns. (Bushingless, tapered cone barrel lockup, etc.)
I'm guilty of the same, I rescued a derelict S&W frame, albeit not a semi-auto, to build my Steel Challenge gun.
IPSC full-house race guns like the one pictured are to defensive carry guns as an Indy race car is to your average, grocery-getting minivan. You don't have a good place to seatbelt in a child seat in the Indy car, but by Gawd, you're a lot more competitive and have a better chance of winning the Indy 500 than with the Dodge Caravan! See the analogy?
I competed in IPSC for several years, and yes, I thought it became a total bitchfest prior to the introduction of Limited Class. The introduction of IDPA brought the competition back down to a "run-what's-on-your-nightstand" level.
The utility of these race guns isn't terribly compromised. People design and build these high-dollar lead squirtguns, from scratch, for the express purpose of shooting accurately and fast enough to win. Although they were not built with the intent of being carried for personal defense, a lot of the technology does find it's way into carry guns. (Bushingless, tapered cone barrel lockup, etc.)
I'm guilty of the same, I rescued a derelict S&W frame, albeit not a semi-auto, to build my Steel Challenge gun.