magnum_force
New member
Do Italian shotguns have better fit and finish than American shotguns? Which has the better build quality?
**Who is better - Italian or American shotguns**
- Thread starter magnum_force
- Start date
It's Blondes/Brunettes or Ford/Chevy, MF. SOME Pizza guns have better fit, finish,reliability and Longevity than SOME US made shotguns.
According to the experts over on Shotgun Report, a Berreta 390-391 will outlast the 1100. Shifting to O/Us, the Brownings will outlast the Berretas.
With some models, the difference in longevity becomes moot. If a Citori goes 20,000 rounds longer than a 682 before turning into history matters little if the Berreta has gone 200,000 rounds and never glitched.
And, unless you're a dedicated clay gamer, even a shotgun of lesser quality will outlast you.
According to the experts over on Shotgun Report, a Berreta 390-391 will outlast the 1100. Shifting to O/Us, the Brownings will outlast the Berretas.
With some models, the difference in longevity becomes moot. If a Citori goes 20,000 rounds longer than a 682 before turning into history matters little if the Berreta has gone 200,000 rounds and never glitched.
And, unless you're a dedicated clay gamer, even a shotgun of lesser quality will outlast you.
Are the Italians better than the Americans?
The answer is Yes, No and Maybe.
Among the very best guns there is little to distinguish a Fabbri and one of the custom guns made by Tony Galazan including price after you factor in the engraving costs. Meanwhile, the new Ithaca NID doubles will hold their own against any comparable sxs coming out of Italy.
Pump guns are clearly the domain of the Americans. Beretta has offered a pump gun but it never took off. No gun in the world has been able to match the Remington 870, Ithaca 37 or the various Winchester pumps. The Benelli Nova is creeping into the picture but hasn't been on the market long enough to establish itself against the Americans.
Semi autos go to the Italians but only recently. The Benelli and Beretta guns have an edge over the Remingtons. The Browning Gold is sort of an American contender but IIRC the Gold, like most other Brownings, is made in Japan.
There is no contest when it comes to over/unders -- Italians all the way. The only American made over/unders are the Ruger Red Label and whatever Remington product is on the market. Browning Citoris and Weatherby guns are made in Japan by Miroku and SKB respectively. Compared to Beretta and Rizzini, the American guns can't compare in fit, finish and handling.
There is also no mid to upper range target gun being manufactured in America. The Italians own this market with Perazzi, and higher-end Berettas like the DT10, ASE90 and various SO models.
These opinons only relate to current and recent production guns. If you asked the same question regarding historical production back in the heydays of the Fox, Parker, Winchester 21, Remington 32 the answer would be quite different.
Paul
The answer is Yes, No and Maybe.
Among the very best guns there is little to distinguish a Fabbri and one of the custom guns made by Tony Galazan including price after you factor in the engraving costs. Meanwhile, the new Ithaca NID doubles will hold their own against any comparable sxs coming out of Italy.
Pump guns are clearly the domain of the Americans. Beretta has offered a pump gun but it never took off. No gun in the world has been able to match the Remington 870, Ithaca 37 or the various Winchester pumps. The Benelli Nova is creeping into the picture but hasn't been on the market long enough to establish itself against the Americans.
Semi autos go to the Italians but only recently. The Benelli and Beretta guns have an edge over the Remingtons. The Browning Gold is sort of an American contender but IIRC the Gold, like most other Brownings, is made in Japan.
There is no contest when it comes to over/unders -- Italians all the way. The only American made over/unders are the Ruger Red Label and whatever Remington product is on the market. Browning Citoris and Weatherby guns are made in Japan by Miroku and SKB respectively. Compared to Beretta and Rizzini, the American guns can't compare in fit, finish and handling.
There is also no mid to upper range target gun being manufactured in America. The Italians own this market with Perazzi, and higher-end Berettas like the DT10, ASE90 and various SO models.
These opinons only relate to current and recent production guns. If you asked the same question regarding historical production back in the heydays of the Fox, Parker, Winchester 21, Remington 32 the answer would be quite different.
Paul
O/U
My $.02 as usual
Among the higher end target guns the Perazzis and Beretta SOs are being challenged by the Kolar O/U. This recent addition to the clay target market is of high quality and has captured a following. Kolar also made the excellent Remington 90T trap gun that was the equal of any continental gun.
As far as Mid to High range target guns, the Germans have a huge following, especially on the Skeet fields. The K guns are an American design, after all
We are seeing the emergence of high quality gun makers here in the good ol US. Firms like Galazan and Kolar are producing high quality guns, that , while expensive and not for everyone, are the equal to the continental guns.
The entry O/U market is owned by Italy and Japan, and this will probably remain so for the forseeable future.
Don't knock the Remington 1100, is has been around longer and has won more titles than any other gun out there. Remington would not have brought the gun back if a demand did not exist. It is still the best value for the money. The Beretta hasn't really been around long enough and Beretta keeps changing the models to make last years gun obsolete. The 1100 hasn't changed since the 60's. The Berettas are the fad guns now, who knows what will be the hot gun next year.
Geoff Ross
My $.02 as usual
Among the higher end target guns the Perazzis and Beretta SOs are being challenged by the Kolar O/U. This recent addition to the clay target market is of high quality and has captured a following. Kolar also made the excellent Remington 90T trap gun that was the equal of any continental gun.
As far as Mid to High range target guns, the Germans have a huge following, especially on the Skeet fields. The K guns are an American design, after all
We are seeing the emergence of high quality gun makers here in the good ol US. Firms like Galazan and Kolar are producing high quality guns, that , while expensive and not for everyone, are the equal to the continental guns.
The entry O/U market is owned by Italy and Japan, and this will probably remain so for the forseeable future.
Don't knock the Remington 1100, is has been around longer and has won more titles than any other gun out there. Remington would not have brought the gun back if a demand did not exist. It is still the best value for the money. The Beretta hasn't really been around long enough and Beretta keeps changing the models to make last years gun obsolete. The 1100 hasn't changed since the 60's. The Berettas are the fad guns now, who knows what will be the hot gun next year.
Geoff Ross
Last year I purchased a Benelli Super Black Eagle for waterfowl and turkey hunting. Is the Benelli SBE better made than a 1100 or 11-87? Yes I would say but will it outlast the Rem. maybe, but both will go the distance for hunting purposes. Was the SBE worth the extra $$ ? probalby not.
If I had to do it all over again. I would of hunted for a Browning A-5 3" NIB or in new condition and would of paid more than the Rem. but less than the SBE.
There's nothing wrong with the Rem 870 and 1100 as they are time proven guns. I still have and use the 870 I purchased in 1964.
I quess it's only relitive to what you want and can afford.
Turk
If I had to do it all over again. I would of hunted for a Browning A-5 3" NIB or in new condition and would of paid more than the Rem. but less than the SBE.
There's nothing wrong with the Rem 870 and 1100 as they are time proven guns. I still have and use the 870 I purchased in 1964.
I quess it's only relitive to what you want and can afford.
Turk
my two bits
i think it is a toss up on the automatics. i have access to two remington 1100's that have literally shot hundreds of thousands of rounds. they have 3 digit serial numbers and were presented to two , then, well known skeet shooters who shot the fool out of them, and still do. both still have the original rubber gas rings. i know of another 1100 that is in south texas that has shot , according to its owner , about 25000 duck loads, both steel and lead. it wore out. the pin which the magazine latch pivots had it's head wear off, remington said it was easier to just buy another gun.
i have a beretta 303 which has about 250,000 shells through it. knock on wood, it has never malfunctioned. it has never been repaired. the gas jets were enlarged so it would handle target loads better( just as 110 ports are sometimes plugged to help the cycling with heavy loads). enlarged 1/64" . my two man team partner has a AL series beretta, has never once been cleaned in 35 years, he hunts all over the country with it, it never misses a beat. this guy hunts quial in texas and kansas, pheasant in texas, kansas, nebraska, south dakota, ducks and geese from canada to the gulf, on the east coast, whereever with whatever ammo he can get. he goes to mexico and argentina every year. to me this gives the edge to italy on the autos.
on the newer o/u i think italy is the leader. the kolar gun is just a perazzi with coil springs in it's trigger and the barrels lowered in the receiver a little. rags has told me this himself, he considers the perazzi the gun to beat, so they just tried to refine it. when the 680 series of beretta came out, i think they were better quality controlled than perazzi, but of course, now they own perazzi and perazzi is a better gun than it once was. the regulators of the beretta barrels are what i think made the biggest difference. beretta barrels typically shoot closer to the same spot than perazzi. makes them a lot easier to shoot.
kreighoff? pretty good shotguns, made very popular by the shooters shooting them and hal making them easier for many people to acquire. i don't think they point as well, but, that's my opinion.
i vote that italy has the auto and o/u market in the mid to lower end market. i think the citori and red label rule below the italian o/u's, but are certainly not of the same
quality. america rules the pump gun market, and the sxs without getting into comparing apples and oranges, you know fabbri and rizzini to say charles daly and winchester.
i think it is a toss up on the automatics. i have access to two remington 1100's that have literally shot hundreds of thousands of rounds. they have 3 digit serial numbers and were presented to two , then, well known skeet shooters who shot the fool out of them, and still do. both still have the original rubber gas rings. i know of another 1100 that is in south texas that has shot , according to its owner , about 25000 duck loads, both steel and lead. it wore out. the pin which the magazine latch pivots had it's head wear off, remington said it was easier to just buy another gun.
i have a beretta 303 which has about 250,000 shells through it. knock on wood, it has never malfunctioned. it has never been repaired. the gas jets were enlarged so it would handle target loads better( just as 110 ports are sometimes plugged to help the cycling with heavy loads). enlarged 1/64" . my two man team partner has a AL series beretta, has never once been cleaned in 35 years, he hunts all over the country with it, it never misses a beat. this guy hunts quial in texas and kansas, pheasant in texas, kansas, nebraska, south dakota, ducks and geese from canada to the gulf, on the east coast, whereever with whatever ammo he can get. he goes to mexico and argentina every year. to me this gives the edge to italy on the autos.
on the newer o/u i think italy is the leader. the kolar gun is just a perazzi with coil springs in it's trigger and the barrels lowered in the receiver a little. rags has told me this himself, he considers the perazzi the gun to beat, so they just tried to refine it. when the 680 series of beretta came out, i think they were better quality controlled than perazzi, but of course, now they own perazzi and perazzi is a better gun than it once was. the regulators of the beretta barrels are what i think made the biggest difference. beretta barrels typically shoot closer to the same spot than perazzi. makes them a lot easier to shoot.
kreighoff? pretty good shotguns, made very popular by the shooters shooting them and hal making them easier for many people to acquire. i don't think they point as well, but, that's my opinion.
i vote that italy has the auto and o/u market in the mid to lower end market. i think the citori and red label rule below the italian o/u's, but are certainly not of the same
quality. america rules the pump gun market, and the sxs without getting into comparing apples and oranges, you know fabbri and rizzini to say charles daly and winchester.