Which would you pick for a LEO squad car rifle?

Which for a squad car rifle

  • Any AR-15

    Votes: 84 48.8%
  • FN FS2000

    Votes: 9 5.2%
  • Sig 556

    Votes: 17 9.9%
  • SA Socom 16

    Votes: 26 15.1%
  • DSA FAL Tactical

    Votes: 13 7.6%
  • AR-10

    Votes: 12 7.0%
  • FN P90

    Votes: 11 6.4%

  • Total voters
    172

'75Scout

New member
I like the FN FS2000. I think the bullpup design has alot to offer and FN as a put out a pretty good specimen. Optics could be attached, takes AR mags, slightly longer barrel w/ shorter overall length. For the 5.56 rifles the FS2000 is my favorite. But since it will be carried in the car and weight of gun and ammo isn't an issue, there is something to be said about the .308 rifles. The AR-10 and Socom 16 are my pickes there.

What do you think.
 

JIH

New member
Are you going to be carrying in an in-cab rack or in the trunk?

If it's an in-cab rack, you may want to consider what is easiest to get in and out of the car's security rack. A rifle with a more traditional "forearm" may be easier for you to grab and release in a hurry, but I could be completely mistaken.

You may also want to evaluate whether the extra power of a 308 is going to be a help or a hinderance.
 
Different ground-different rifle
Local PD- FS2000 lloks a little too military. Id go with a standard AR
county sherriff- AR-10 need a little more reach sometimes.
just my .02

SW
 

M1911

New member
1) I've got an AR10. Too big and heavy, too long to easily get in and out, and the magazines don't seat reliably.

2) I've got a FAL. MUCH too big and heavy. The receiver is STUPIDLY long, the result being that it is basically impossible for me to shoot off hand because the handguard is out somewhere around the next county. It's the only rifle I own that has dumped the contents of the magazine at my feet.

You know how 'net denizens claim the gas adjustment is the greatest thing since sliced bread? Guess what happens if you have the gas port open too much? The bolt doesn't cycle forcefully enough and the empty cartridge gets trapped between the bolt carrier and the dust cover. It's embarrassing to be on the range kicking the operating rod with your boot trying to unjam your file, but I shudder to think about the results of such an incident during combat. Ask me how I know...

The sights suck and the trigger is worse.

I don't understand the obsession with the FAL -- IMNSHO, the only redeeming feature of the rifle is that it is chambered in .308.

3) I've also got an M1A -- it's a very nice rifle, though long and heavy in its standard format. Balances much better than the FAL. Mine has been far more reliable than either my AR10 or FAL. More accurate too, with great sights and an excellent trigger right out of the box. And any decent gunsmith can tune the trigger if you insist. Try finding a gunsmith who can properly tune a FAL trigger. The SOCOM II is RIDICULOUSLY heavy. 10+ lbs. If you're big and tough and in great shape, then fine. For the average cop who's spent the last 10 years parked in the front seat of a squad car? I don't think so...
 

'75Scout

New member
Its good to hear someone that can compare an AR-10, FAL, and M1A. The FALs did seem to be way too long. I have heard people say the AR-10 is better than the M1A, but I'm not a big fan of the ARs. And the Socom 16 is the one without the rails. It's fairly light and I really liked the one I handled.

I don't think the FS2000 looks any more tactical than most AR-15s. The media will call them all "Assault Rifles" even though they are all semi-auto.
 

joshua

New member
I voted for a P90, but any CAR or M4 would do. An AR-10 type is just too heavy for regular squad car use, I think it fits more of a sniper role than a carbine. I am not a police officer but I'm thinking the reasoning for a carbine need is to have a bit more reach than the standard issued pistol. I've seen guys at the range claiming to be police officers and sadly they can't shoot worth a hoot. I'm assuming hitting the cardboard target holder is good enough for the police department. Just imagine the accuracy potential of most cops if they get issued P90s, the lack of recoil and maybe an added optical/red dot sight will make them marksmen instantly. josh
 
The AR would be the standard choice.

I guess American cops have something against AKs... That's what I would pick if the department was too cheap to pick up some of those SOCOM M-14 look-alike monsters. The .223 is a little skimpy for my tastes and the FALs and AR-10s are just too long.

So I guess my preference would be: SOCOM 16, Quality AK, then AR- in that order.
 

joshua

New member
I guess American cops have something against AKs... That's what I would pick if the department was too cheap to pick up some of those SOCOM M-14 look-alike monsters.

When American Cops are armed with AKs that will be the day we need to step back and think about what we're doing and what are we heading for. In law enforcement IMHO that the government should provide accurate and reliable weapons preferably made in USA. I know I voted for the P90 but they do have FNUSA. josh
 
Well given that of the firearms listed I only know what 3 of them actauly are. I personaly am not a big fan of the 'new style' mlitary firearms. If I had to equip a police force. In addition to thei side arms I would issue Semi-auto Auto Ordance Thompsons.
 

FS2K

New member
The FN FS2000 is an EXCELLENT rifle.

Scout,

I just did a lot of shooting with my Buddies SOCOM 16, and while the rifle is fun, it has a considerable flash out of the front when fired especially at night. I suspect the factory porting has a lot to do with it, and since they don't have threaded barrels, there's nothing you can do to change it easily.

May be a problem for night time shooting.

Also, the .308 is a super combat round for sure, and loaded with some Hornady TAP rounds it should be right at home in a patrol car, however I would consider the power of the .308 an added liability in a densly populated area, and the blast a liability for your hearing indoors. Again, a surpressor is NOT an option with the SOCOM.

The FAL and AR-10 are both in the same boat. They offer a little more modification options, but are still .308's.

The P90 is select fire. While this may serve you for your job ammunition is still a hassle to get and very expensive.

The AR15's are a safe choice, but the AR15 is NOT the ultimate battle rifle some people make it out to be. I am an AR15 guy, I know.
The SIG offers little more than a revised gas piston upper to the AR15, but pretty much the same thing in my opinion.

While the FN FS2K does have a paramilitary look to it, I don't see how it would be more threatening or not as P/C as any AR15. This is the 21st century and weapon designs are bound to evolve sometime. The FN has a lot going for it as far as a compact weapons system goes.

#1. You have the full ballistic capability of a 17.4" barrel with a 1:7" barrel twist. The FN will ballistically out perform any 11.5" or M4 configured AR15/M16, in a package the same length as a CAR15.

#2. No "Gas Blast" in your face. The FS2K's gas operating system sends nothing towards the shooter and burns clean, unlike the AR15 design.

#3. The FS2K is one COOL gun. The guns outer stock keeps heat away from the shooter and does not radiate heat after firing like an AR does. After a few magazines my M4's are uncomfortable to handle without gloves. The foregrip retains heat radiated from the barrel and get REAL hot sometimes. It also takes quite a while for the gun to cool down too. The FN's outer surface never heats up to that level in the first place, so can be immediately placed back in the car after shooting without having to worry about it melting anything.

#4. Natural pointing position. Just like an M1 Carbine the FS2K is lined up to the target as soon as it is shouldered. The gun has a comfortable, natural feeling point, which can speed up target aquisition alot under stress.

#5. Easy to Maintain. One pin and the gun comes apart.

#6. Excellent Flash hider. The stock Flash Hider on the FS is very good. The gun has a mild flash signature even when fired in low light. The stock FH is no Vortex or Phantom mind you, but it is better than any Birdcage FH for an AR15.

#7. Comfortable for carry. The short length and smooth outer surface of the FS along with it's HK style folding charging handle make it very comfortable to carry. No points to poke you in the ribs or back. No magazine hanging out to snag on anything either.

#8. Balance. Not that you will be doing any one handed shooting, but unlike an AR15 the FS can be easily held at the ready with one hand, as it carries it's weight right over the trigger housing. This may come in handy if even you have to use your weak hand to move something or push something out of the way. There is no way you could do this with an AR15, not unless you have the wrists of a professional arm wrestler.

#9. Totally Ambidextrous. ALL the guns controls can be manipulated either right or left handed. This makes off-hand shooting a breeze.

#10. Takes easily available AR15 magazines and Ammo. Some of the most common magazines and ammunition calibers available.

I understand that there may be some concern over how the FS2K looks, but again, how much more intimidating is it over a fully accessorized M4? The FN FS2000 is a compact, well balanced machine with the Ballistic capability of a full sized AR15. The 1:7" twist barrel can easily handle the heavier .223 defensive bullets, as well as the higher velocity 5.56 X 45mm Ammo.

FN Herstal doesn't pay me a dime for saying any of this (even if they SHOULD!) All of this comes from my experience with the FS2000 so far. The gun is absolutely reliable and surprisingly accurate (the size is decieving) and tough. The only fault I could find with the gun is the stock iron sights which are better left as back up than primary. That's my recommendation. We are talking about a Squad Car rifle here, not a primary battle rifle.
 

glockopop

New member
Did anybody see the write-up in "Guns and Weapons for Law Enforcement" on the DSA FAL? The article was written by an actual cop who actually carries it in his actual patrol car. He just got the Para model with the folding stock, but he says he's carried the full stock version for a few years and it's been very good to him.
 

4719

New member
In my area, the AR15 platform, specifically the carbine, is by far the most popular patrol rifle. The second most popular is a tie between the H&K G36 and the Ruger Mini 14. There are some departments with surplus M16A1's and M14's.

The AK's are a fine weapon, but unfortunately they have been the weapon of choice by our enemies for years. This creates a "image problem" for the weapon which an administrator wants nothing to do with.
 

'75Scout

New member
It wouldn't be that great of an idea to issue Thompsons. Especially semi-auto Thompsons. They weigh around 10lbs and there are many options that are smaller and lighter that fire a much more powerful round. I understand the idea behind not using a .308. FN makes a semi-auto P90, though I don't know the designation. And even though it has a 16" barrel it is still incredibly compact. But I'm a little skepticle of the round reguarding terminal ballistics, price, and availability.

It's obvious that the AR is the dominant choice, but I'm not a big fan of the design. And newer, better designs are out there now. I think the FN FS2000 is a great design and by the time I will be buying it the price will hopefully have dropped a little. And maybe the will update the irons by then.
 

FS2K

New member
You listed P90. I thought you did on purpose.

The Civilian model is the PS90.

As for the sights in the FS2K I seriously doubt FN Herstal will change anything. It seems to me that the use of optics is kind of a given as far as the guns designers were concerned. That explains the standard weaver rail running the entire length of the upper assy.

Anyway, ant more "improvements" would most likely up the price if anything.
 

smince

Moderator
When American Cops are armed with AKs that will be the day we need to step back and think about what we're doing and what are we heading for.
I just posted this in another thread:

One of our county Sheriff Departments carried AK's for a few years now. Got the rifle, 6mags, and ammo for each really cheap as a package deal. As far as I know, they are still using them. I have no problem whatsoever with LE's using a reliable patrol rifle, no matter who makes it.

IIRC, local media tried to make a stink about it. No one cared.
 

tINY

New member


Unless there is a particular need (and requisite training) I wouldn't put any of those in a LEO patrol car. If thirty rounds of semi-auto is needed, there should be a SWAT team or at least several patrol cars.

The Rem pump action in 223 is plenty for any police officer on normal duty.

Just make sure there is a shotgun next to it.



-tINY

 
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