Which SUV ????

[Kernel]

Before........

While on my way to work last week my '95 Explorer XLT 4x4 was hit and totaled by a nice young lady who, interesting enough, was also driving a late model Explorer (afterwards if we'd put them together we'd had one fully serviceable vehicle). No one was hurt, thank God.

So now I'm in the market for a new vehicle. Like most on this board I do use my SUV's off road capabilities. Nothing to heavy duty, no hill climbing or terrace jumping.... mostly driving in the Fall and Winter (deep mud & deep snow) thru CRP and harvested corn & soybean fields, down unmaintained dirt (mud) roads, hauling a deer out of the timber, dealing with the inevitable Midwest (Iowa/Wisconsin) snow and ice storms.... stuff like that.

I really liked my Explorer - 80,000 miles and not a lick of problems, but before I rush out and buy another XLT what else should I consider? Jeep has fixed most of the design flaws I hated about the old Grand Cherokee: no passenger air bag, poor spare tire placement, back window didn't open. Right now my short list also contains the Toyota 4Runner and Nissan Pathfinder. I know the Japanese make great cars, but I'm a little worried about rust since about every Japanese vehicle I've ever seen that was more than 10 years old was a rust bucket, the engines I'm told will run forever. The Dodge and Chevy products seem to plastic. I like the Isuzu Trooper but it's got that God awful spare tire mounted on the tailgate.

What I like:
2000 or 1999 model year.
Automatic tranny.
A steel frame.
Four doors.
AM/FM/CD/Cassette
4x4 low.
Some kind of 4x4 auto.
Shift on the fly.
4 wheel anti-lock brakes.
16" tires.
Power locks & windows, A/C, cruise control.
Bench seat in front (kinda hard to get anymore).

What I hate:
4 bangers.
Spending more that $28,000.
Something much larger than an Explorer.
Spare tires mounted on the tailgate or in the cargo area.
Vehicles that rust out after 6 or 7 years.
SUVs that are AWD only.
Getting less than 20 mpg on the highway at 70 mph.
Back windows that don't open separate from the tailgate.

What to you guys like and what have you paid?

[This message has been edited by Kernel (edited August 05, 2000).]

 

[USP45]

Kernel -- I own a 1993 Ford Ranger 4x4, 4.0L V6, 240,000 miles, yadda yadda yadda...

I've replaced the entire front end once, transmission 5 times (4 times because the dealer f'ed up the install of the first one, and the first one blew because they didn't properly fill the tranny with fluid after doing the clutch, those B@$t@rds!), brakes every 20,000 miles, both rear leaf springs, alternator, heater core, 4x4 sytem twice, the entire dashboard lighting system onece... don't get me wrong, i understand that i've had it for 240,000 miles and a few things will need to be replaced in that time, but this is a bit excessive.

One thing you should consider befor you re-up with that Ford; push button 4x4.

Have you ever had your 4x4 fail to operate because the stupid electrical actuation system failed? I have. It sucks. Its not easy to get a wrecker to come 10 miles into the bush to pull you out because your 4x4 shat the bed.

I'll never again buy a 4x4 vehicle that does not have a mechanical 4x4 engaging system. That means i want a flippin shifter on the floor that i have to move with my own hand.

Personally, i'll be purchasing a 2000 or 2001 Toyota Tachoma this fall. I expect to get 400,000 miles out of it, and it will be the last 4x4 i buy for atleast 15 years.

So i guess my recommendation for you would be the 4Runner, but i'd guess its out of your price range.

BTW, how do you expect to get a New Explorer XLT 4x4 V6 for under $28,000??? Here in Massachusetts, the best you can do is $30,000 or so.



------------------
~USP

"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998

 

[Wade]

I've had a 1999 Chevy Blazer 4X4 for about four months now and I love it! Also meets most of your criteria (sorry, bucket seats in front).

 

[deanf]

You need a Nissan XTerra. We got our 2000 XTerra for less than your stated price, and it's the loaded version.

It's got everything you want except the front bench and the electronic 4x4 shift. It's still a manual transfer case with the traditional 2H/4H/N/4L set up. Auto hubs, though.

We really like ours. It's got 10100 miles on it since march, and so far no problems.

------------------
"Anyone feel like saluting the flag which the strutting ATF and FBI gleefully raised over the smoldering crematorium of Waco, back in April of ‘93?" -Vin Suprynowicz

[This message has been edited by deanf (edited August 03, 2000).]

 

[7th Fleet]

You liked your Explorer, so thats what I would replace it with. You are familiar with them and seem to be satisfied with what you had, so why change to an unknown, that you might end up hating? I've got the hots for an Explorer, myself but I don't relish new car payments right now.

7th

------------------
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.

 

[sumabich]

USP, complain to Ford you got a lemon and they will replace it. I used to be a Dodge fan, we are now totally Ford. 94 Explorer, electic activation 4 wheel drive works perfectly. 99 f150 extended cab 5.7 V8, 17MPG hiway 10 mpg hauling a 4000 pound car from Mo. 1992 crownvic best side impact rating and runs like a scalded dog. 4-1992 15 passenger vans, 2 mpg higher gas milager, lower maintenance, 5-1996 Ford 15 passenger V-10's, only maintence, replace brake pads. Brother/ 1999 Silverado, 6000 miles, total power steering replacement, 8000 miles, key switch. Any questions? E-mail me.

 

[Dangus]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I really liked my Explorer - 80,000 miles and not a lick of problems[/quote]

Wow, that's a shame it got toasted then, you had quite a rare beast....

Get a Land Rover, the Discovery channel sure loves them.

------------------
I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me

 

[Rich Lucibella]

I used to own a Bronco II....big mistake. I currently have a 4WD Explorer and a Merc 430ML. Don't rule out the Mercedes. It's competitive in price with most SUV's; handles like a car (not a truck); has a great safety rating; and is one of the few in it's class rated for a 5,000 lb towing package. I used it to pull Moderator Harry Humphries's rented Explorer out of mud slicker than pig mucous....mud that I had traveled through without problem.

Drawbacks: It's uglier than pig mucous. No memory on the seats.
Rich

 

[PreserveFreedom]

If it wasn't for your price limit, I would say to get a Hummer.

 

[B Shipley]

http://www.edmunds.com/roadtests/comparison/2000/midsuvs/index.html

 

[skeeter]

Kernel You left out what I consider the two most important options to get when buying a 4WD. One is a locking differential - Jeep calls it Trac-Loc, Chevy calls it Positraction, I call it a must have. A four wheel drive vehicle is really only a two wheel drive. Only one wheel per axle will deliver traction to the road in one direction. I believe when going forward it is the right rear and left front wheel that transmit power to the road. When going in reverse it is the left rear and right front. Technically this is a four wheel drive vehicle except not at one time. With one locking axle you really have a three wheel drive. Having owned most 4 WD vehicles made I can say in deep snow or mud it makes the difference between getting home or not. Both my International Scout and FJ40 Toyota Land Cruiser did not have this option and they could not make the same mudddy hill that my CJ7 and Grand Cherekee could with their optional locking axle.
The other option I think is a must is the trailer towing package because it includes a transmission cooler, HD radiator and a list of smaller usually unmentioned items like synthetic fluids (in the case of the Jeep),HD batt., different (HD) wheel bearings, all things that make the vehicle last longer.

I now have 90,000 miles on my 96 Grand Cherekee and it has been 100% trouble free. I would get another one.

 

[Solitar]

Do they make a serious 4x4 for really serious boulder and snow/mud roads? I used to do Jeep tours in really rough country where the current crop of roadie civilized 4x4's can't make the grade.

Automatic is okay since its torque control is superior to any clutch, BUT they don't go low enough for really hairy boulder crawling. I've been where if the speedometer reads anything at all then you're going too fast. Shift on fly is really good - but it MUST be manual. Maybe an auto AND a manual AND the transfer case (gonna need a longer wheelbase than a Wrangler can provide for decent driveshaft lengths). Locking differentials on both axles are a must.

A steel frame - full box section since I've cracked both sides the C section on a '73 Jeep CJ-5 right behind the front leaf springs.

Four doors - yep
AM/FM/CD/Cassette - yep
4 wheel anti-lock brakes - yep
16.5" wheels or at least tall tires for clearance and more clearance and NO radials since I've sliced sidewalls on rocks.

Bucket seats since in really nasty jouncing you need wrap-around support - including dual shoulder harness and belts over your thighs too. Only those who've been there realize that there almost is no such thing as "too tight" for harnesses.

Manual steering and brakes. I've appreciated this when I've lost engine power on a steep downhill.

Heavy steel body panels that can take punishment. Same for front and rear bumpers - I-beams and leaf springs?

A 258 six met my needs. Low-end torque is crucial and V8's don't usually deliver it. Maybe a V6 for a shorter block and engine compartment.

PTO winch, rear electric winch (many times the best way out is backwards), heavy alternator, block heater, heavy duty cooling and heating, dual batteries, twin shocks on all four.

A Hummer is two feet too wide to fit in many places around here - central Colorado.

Hmmm - I need to find a serious 4x4 forum.

 

[KaMaKaZe]

[sales pitch]

You want a Toyota. You want a Toyota. You want a Toyota.

[/sales pitch]



------------------
God, Guns and Guts made this country a great country!

 

[EricM]

I own only Toyota Land Cruisers (1960, 1986, and 1993), and I would own no other type of vehicle (except maybe a Unimog) . Sounds like you want another Explorer. If I had $28K to spend, it would be on a 1994 TLC with offroad goodies .

 

[B Shipley]

4 runner is too damned small inside (both old and new models). The new Pathfinder is a few cubic feet short of the Durango in volume. Toyo does have serious off-road features though.

Positraction is a limited-slip diff., not a true locking diff. controlled by the driver. Easy to lose control when one side grabs, esp. on ice., which is why you want to be able to control the locking yourself.

 

[KaMaKaZe]

EricM -- Don't encourage the kid! Explorers blow!

------------------
God, Guns and Guts made this country a great country!

 

[Kernel]

After......... it's worsre than it looks

Thanks all for the comments, keep'em coming. My old XLT had the trailer tow package (transmission cooler), optional limited-slip differential, and skid plates. The 2001 Nissan Pathfinder looks promising, thanks Shipley for the link to Edmunds (I'd been there, but didn't see that review). Maybe I can get a XE down to under 30k.

One thing I can say about the Explorer is it is crash worthy. She T-boned me going about 45 mph. Hit me so hard it lifted my Explorer up on two wheels. It came back down and I could still drive away, in fact I drove it to work today (she hit me "perfectly"). The passenger's side is caved in but structurally it held together, didn't even break glass. Over $9,000 in damage and that's with salvage parts used in the estimate. Her Explorer buckled right in the "crumple zone" in front, air bags went off, not a scratch on her. Her's had to leave the scene on a tow truck, though. Front end was pushed into the wheels so it couldn't be steered. -- Kernel


[This message has been edited by Kernel (edited August 05, 2000).]

 

[jcoyoung]

How about one of these?

http://poseur.4x4.org/

 

[George Hill]

Land Rover... I like the Defender 90 but a Disco would be nice too.

 

[KAM_Indianapolis]

Although it doesn't have a full frame, you didn't mention the Jeep Cherokee. I have an 89 and love it.