which one Keltec or Beretta?

RosaMariTB

New member
I had just purchased a XD 9 / 4" , I truly like it but I have decided it is a bit too big for petites to carrie as a ccw. I thought I could just keep my XD for special occasions , special places and home defense.
I've seen a Keltec P-3AT /.380 and a Beretta 3032 Tomcat that would fit my body size just right for regular daily self deffense, the man at the store said the Keltec and my sons said the Tomcat... (just as they said it) would be like flicking a bugger to the crook, of course I had a response to that (as always) but I admit it left me with the mind wondering which one of these two I should get.
Can someone help me with that decission I would so much appreciate it.
Keep in mind I am 5'2"/ 100 lbs.
 

RosaMariTB

New member
Sorry for double posting, it kept on saying invalid something.
I'm not much into computers.
Never mind I guess it didn't double post after all.
 

blume357

New member
380 & keltec

us macho guys like the big guns. Just look at my email address... with that said... as for now...I've settled on carrying a 380 too. This is a Sig 230 and I often forget I have it on. Also, as for the 380 round; All I know is when I shot it...it don't seem that little or light to me.

I've only shot a keltec one time and it was one of those little plastic less than $200 numbers.. and all I can say is it sucked. I hope they make better pistols. So, I can't compare the two, but I would try both out and see which one feels and shoots better if at all possible.
 

Jody Hudson

New member
I love my Keltecs and have them all. The tiny, light, thin, Keltec .380 is quite a handful in the recoil department for some people although I like it a lot. I would however go with the Keltec 9mm which is also small and light and thin and holds 13 rounds of 9mm.

Either of the Keltecs is totally unforgiving of those with limp hand grips and limp wrists. You will need to hold any light gun with a crushing grip and a ridgid wrist or it will fail to function.

The .380 is not considered to be an appropriate self defense round these days, because too many of the criminals are fat, drugged, crazed, or all three and it takes more to put an end to the situation FAST... Even a two second delay from the shot to the stop can be deadly in self defense.

Try to find a place to rent before you buy and IF you do go with a .380 or less, please consider using the fmj for better functioning and better penetration and train to shoot several shots into the target at once.
 

95gtman

New member
Out of those two choices I would go with the Beretta. I had a Keltec P3AT and had to send it back to 2 times to ahve things fixed, and after the first time it really never worked right. Also I have a friend that has one and he also had to send his back and have something fixed, but after that his has been fine. I know some gun series have problems, but the P3AT sereies has had a lot from what I have read. If you want two more recommendations you can look at the Sig that was mentioned earlier, and the NAA .380 is a good gun.
 

Jody Hudson

New member
Sorry you have had problems with the Keltecs. I have lots of them and most of them I bought from people who had problems with them and I have not had those problems with the same guns in almost every case. These little pistols are so very light and small that they are ultra sensitive to grip and hold in order for them to work. The Kel-Tec .32 is the same size as the .380 but the .32 cartridge, a much weaker cartridge, is even LESS forgiving in these little babies.

The Beretta may be fine as may be the Sig but I have had problems with both of them and sold several of the Sig .380s because of that and the two Berettas I had in .32 and .380 although the much larger and older Beretta in 380 with the high capacity was flawless for me. Guns do work differently for different people and the smaller they are the more sensitive they are to operators as a rule, according to my experience.

Just remember, the smaller the gun the more difficult it is to shoot and function as a rule and the more recoil there is by far. Small guns are better for experts in many cases as they require better and more consistant control in every way and are also harder to control. I often see people thinking they want to get a smaller gun thinking it will be better in some way and it ends up being far worse for them.

Concealability, even on a petite person, is best achieved with proper holster, belt or purse/bag attentions.

Again, the best advice of all is to find a way to try before you buy or just buy and be ready to sell and buy another if the one you choose turns out to not work well for you. And, PLEASE consider going to 9mm as it is far more powerful for self defense.

If you do go with the .380, Double Tap Ammo will soon have a superior defensive cartridge that will give measurable improvement to the .380 for defense if you end up going with that caliber...:eek:
 

HighValleyRanch

New member
Jody Hudson,
Looking up past threads I see that you are an expert on the Walther TPH's.
You gave up the TPH for a Keltec?

I'm about to look at a Walther this weekend. One a german and one a manurhin. In .380. Any advice on this?
My CCW is a glock 19, but my backup carry is an Iver Johnson TP 22, which is similar to a TPH or really looks more like a Mini PPK in .22.

I read your posts on quik shok ammo and am trying to find some to see if it will work in my TP. It like high or hyper vel. .22. Stingers didn't work, but mini mags are flawless.

I would considerr a Keltec, except they aren't on the approved list here in California and Keltec said they had no plans to import.
 

Jody Hudson

New member
As far as I know, there is no one left to work on TPHs and parts are difficult or impossible to find. The Iver Johnson TP-22 is FINE... I have owned several dozen of them and at one time they were one of my most beloved. However they are not much smaller than a Kel-Tec 9mm.

As far as the Walther PP, PPK, PPKs, etc. Because of the design, the Makarov is an improvement. The primary difficulty in ANY Walther PP series of any origin is that the cartridge must make a difficult leap, UP from the magazine into the chamber and that leads to a lot of malfunctions and ammo sensitivity.

The Makarov shoots a slightly more powerful round, the 9x18 Makarov ammo instead of the 9x17 which is the .380.

The Makarov slide pushes the cartridge STRAIGHT in from the top of the magazine into the chamber. This leads to much greater accuracy and reliability. I would not willingly carry a Walther for self defense instead of a Makarov.

The Makarov is slim, sturdy and reliable. Silver Bear, Russian ammo works in some of the Makarovs and even though it is the 9x18 it has the performance characteristics of full 9mm. Most Makarov ammo is 95 grain or close to it traveling at 800 to 950 feet per second.

The Silver Bear, 120 grain, Hollow Point, leaves those Makarovs that it works in, at about 1200 feet per second. This ammo has a microscopically larger diameter than most other Makarov ammo so it does not work in some Makarovs that have tighter chambers. In those it does work in, it is fantastically accurate and powerful.

Quik-Shoks are available at Walmart in our area. Velocitors are too and they are often very good in small .22s. CCI Mini-Mag is often a top choice as well but not always.

You are already at the top of the Mountain with Glock 19 and Iver Johnson TP-22 but the TP is ammo sensitive and each one is different. I bought dozens and dozens of them for $80 as I knew they were a bargain and thought they should have gone up to three or four hundred dollars at least because they are FAR better than the Walther PP-22s and smaller. I sold all of mine for $200 to $250 but they are back down in value now I think to a lot less than that.

The Makarov is basically a Walther that works, is more reliable, more powerful, more accurate, and a third the price or so... IF, you get a Makarov that does not like the Silver Bear 120gr HP, it will likely do well with Corbon or S&B or some other ammo... Personally, If I had a Makarov that did not like Silver Bear, I would use FMJ only in it and go for the penetration as few of the other Hollow Points open up, the Corbon is the only exception that has tested out for me.

www.Makarov.com is the Know-All web site for the Makarov.

Small and Powerful and fairly reliable; the TP-22 is fine with whatever the best ammo is for YOUR particular one.

Powerful, small, accurate, reliable, and as perfect as you can get - You have it, the Glock 19.

In between, Makarov RULES the Mountain and per my experience nothing else comes close.

Note: I am certainly NOT an expert. I just like pistols and have a long time hobby of buying, shooting and selling them - always seeking the Holy Grail. I have found that Holy Grail of pistols now and it is not one but several and you have two of them now. Consider the Makarov; German has the better finish and fit; Bulgarian is less expensive and more likely to like Silver Bear.

I have a couple of East German Makarovs for sale now if you are interested for $350 each and they DO like Silver Bear very well. You can get a Bulgarian for under $200 however and it shoots as well. :D
 

2ksportny

New member
Here are my thoughts, take them how you will.





I own a Kel-Tec p32,the gun is the same size as the p3at. I looked at the beretta with the tip up barrell before I bought my kel tec. I liked the beretta's small size & the weight felt good but for my purposes, which with this gun was solely for backup/light weight use I had to go with the kel tec. It has proven to be dependable for me, however I will not leave out that it did get caught up on the 7th round every so often when it was brand new. I worked that problem out by putting more rounds through it. Also I could not see spending a lot of money on a gun that I may carry a handful of times throughout the summer months. The gun was cheaper then the beretta which played a little into my choice but I still paid around $250 (give or take a few $$$) for mine, I got the slide chromed so that it would be that much stronger. That is just me choice though.
 

Jiml3

New member
Have you considered getting a used Kahr in 9mm.? It's a much better choice.
It is not a blowback which causes more felt recoil and because it is 9mm. it is a more effective round and cheaper than .380 ammo. Look for a newer model that has a smoother trigger action. It is double action only with a smooth trigger pull. It is the safest type of gun when under stress. Just point and shoot. No safeties to disengage.
There are several sizes so you are sure to find one you will like. I purchased a used PM9 with night sights for $450. and it is worth every penny.
When you need a gun, you want something that you can trust your life too. With that in mind, don't buy a gun just on price or you will be cheating yourself.

JimL3
 

cavediver27

New member
My primary CC weapon is a Kel-Tec P3-AT. The reasons are many but they include:

1. Mine is 100% reliable, never a failure of any kind.
2. In a DeSantis Nemisis pocket holster it completely disappears in my front pocket.
3. It is so light that I can carry it all the time and never know it's there.
4. I trust the .380 Remington Golden Saber that I carry although it is the minimun round I would use for self-defense.

A self-defense weapon is only good if you have it with you. The P3-AT is one that is small enough, light enough, and reliable enough to always be carried with you.

FWIW, I'm in a motel room right now on a business trip and as always, it's right here with me.
 

Res O. Lushin

Moderator
I bought a Beretta 3032 last week and love it. I've put around 200 rounds through it and not a hiccup. Its heavier than the Keltec and a little more $$$, but it feels solid in your hand, not to mention its pretty accurate. I thought the Keltec felt like a top heavy ATM card. JMHO
 

Mastrogiacomo

New member
I bought five Berettas - all are great. :D I just don't like small and/or light weight guns. For looks, durability, style - they hard to beat.
 

Bullrock

New member
Care to elaborate.
Well I have in the past so I'll keep it brief. I guess I bought it because I thought it would make a nice pocket carry. Then I found it was loud, unfun to shoot, and I never was able to put a magazine through it without an FTE. Because it was unreliable it never became my carry. In the end, I forgot it was a puney gun made for midgets. At the end of the magazine, after two straight FTE's I got careless and the slide put a hole in my thumb causing nerve damage.

My Doc told me I would have been better off it had I broken it. At least it would have healed. Sorry to have bored you all! Buy a full size Beretta, just not the TomCat!!!:barf:
 

kymasabe

New member
...neither.

I'm no Beretta fan. Never have been. My recent purchase of the Taurus PT-22 .22LR over the Beretta is further proof. Anyway...I see no reason why you can't use .380 as a self defense round. Some will whine and moan that it just doesn't cut it but I punches the same size hole as 9mm so it can't be all bad. Some say the JHP doesn't penetrate enough and others say that FMJ doesn't leave a large enough wound channel. Personally, my Kel-Tec .380 is loaded with Federal Hydro-Shoks...for now...until Cor-Bon starts distributing the new .380 DPX round.
Would I buy a Beretta - nope.
Would I buy another Kel-Tec - probably not. My .380 had to go back for repairs after only 3 days and 80 rounds. Seems fine now but...is tough to have confidence in it.
I WOULD buy a NAA Guardian. I shot the .32, .380 and the .32NAA which is a cool necked down round. My local indoor range guys all carry Kel-Tec .32's as back-ups and they say the .32 has been flawless.
 
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