Which cartridge for lots of flexibility (subsonic)?

[Daekar]

So, since I lately got the go ahead from my spousal counterpart to put a shooting range on our property once I can find/make a safe backstop, I have been musing about the ideal accompaniment to my bolt-action 22 with subsonic ammo. The gun in question will be a T/C Encore rifle, and the cartridge must be able to be handloaded to meet these requirements:
1) Subsonic, I'd like all loads to be ~1000 fps so as to minimize attention from neighbors. Even short-range hunting loads will be subsonic.
2) Wide range of bullet weights. I'd love to find something that ran from about 180gr to 350gr, which could be loaded with appropriate powder/filler to keep velocities at 1000fps. 200gr. is the heaviest the light bullets should be, and the heavier the better for the high end.
3) Long lasting brass with powder-puff loads.
4) Reasonably available components.
5) Someday a supressor will come into the picture. Don't know if that matters.

 

[SHNOMIDO]

taking a shot in the dark here

.45 ACP

sounds like it fits all your parameters to me, except its light on the bullet weight.

So im 4/5 and that aint bad

 

[Adamantium]

45-70 seems like the obvious choice to me. That will pack a pop at short range and is big enough diameter that you could hunt with lead (and not have to worry about a expanding bullet not getting the needed velocity). I've never gotten into NFA stuff though, so for that you are on your own.

 

[Jim Watson]

Looks like a heavy .45 Colt to me.
I would want a custom barrel and a gunsmith who understood your wants to cut a close chamber for accuracy and brass life.

A Linebaugh .45 revolver will exceed your ballistics, so they should be no problem in a strong 18" single shot.

 

[serf 'rett]

45 ACP was my first thought also, but it's kinda heavy for rabbits and tree rodents.

 

[Adamantium]

What is the allure of getting a 45 acp when you have to get a custom barrel for it and the bullet weight tops out at 250ish? For a pistol yeah makes lots of sense, but why in a rifle?

 

[Daekar]

Yeah, I considered the 45acp, but it just doesn't stretch enough with different weights.

I should explain better (now that I'm not typing on a cellphone!), this chambering will be the heavier in a pair (the first being 357mag) for a few specific uses:
1) Introducing extremely blast- and recoil-sensitive shooters to non-rimfire cartridges
2) Quiet (relatively) plinking
3) Short range hunting - up to Eastern Whitetail. Bears wouldn't be on the menu with subsonic loads, that's not in my comfort zone even if its possible

Obviously, a supressor will be necessary to really get the sound and blast down.

As far as I can tell, using the right powders to make sure I use up enough case volume, I can load a 357 below 9mm power with the lightest bullets, and I've seen posts about people using up to 215 SWCs. That's a good spread for the first few steps. This gun would continue that gradient.

It would be great if I could get all the way to 1000ft*lbs and stay @ about 1000fps, which should be about a 450gr bullet. I think that's manageable with a 45-70, but I'm getting conflicting information on the web about the lightest bullet which will be accurate and stable out of a 45-70. Some people say 300 is the lightest to go, which means I'd have to drop my velocity target to about 800fps to get the lowest energy load where I would want it.

Is that about as clear as mud?

 

[spacecoast]

.44 magnum is pretty flexible in that weight range. Handloads.com has data for 180 to 355 grain bullets.

 

[black mamba]

.44 Magnum

If you want to keep all velocities at or under 1,000 fps, then no need for a bigger case, just get the standard .44 mag. Mild pressures are obtainable with even the 350 gr bullets at 1,000 fps, and no fillers will be needed.

If you do decide to step up velocities for hunting, then you can drive the heavier bullets at over 1,400 fps in rifle barrels.

With this optimized case size for subsonic shooting you will spend less money on components as well as being able to find them just about anywhere.

 

[subsonicenthusiast]

Uhhh, why not get multiple barrels for your Encore. That's the benefit of a TC. Multiple barrels for whatever mood your in. If you end up going suppressed 30blk looks good to me (I'm already invested in .223 & 22lr so I'm not going to spend the money again for a 300blk suppressor).

 

[kraigwy]

'06 and 308 work quite well sub sonic using cast bullets.

I use to load cast bullets for my Garnad and M1A for shooting at 50 ft indoor ranges at the NRA 50 Ft Small Bore targets for some good winter practice for my high power Matches (gets nippy in the winter in Alaska).

I used Unique back then but since they came out with Trail Boss I use it. 10 grns of TB in a 308 and 12 in a '06 works quite well with .311 cal 150 grn cast bullets at short range. Also cheap to shoot, no recoil and sub sonic. It also works in my TC w/30 Herrett and 30-30 barrels.

 

[Hammerhead]

A .45 Colt 250 grain LSWC will take deer cleanly at 1,000 fps and will be a heck of a lot quieter than a .45-70 pushing a 450 grain bullet to the same speed.

 

[chewie146]

.45-70 can go down that low with Trail Boss or some Unique loads.

 

[Hammerhead]

.45-70 is a great, versatile round, but when you download it to .45 Colt spec's it becomes very in-efficient and requires more powder than than the .45 Colt to achieve the same power level, making it louder than it needs to be.

 

[TXGunNut]

First thought was 45-70, next was 45 Colt. Latter may be more practical, former more versatile but would use more powder. You're on your own with the suppressor bit, I like to hear them go boom.

 

[jmorris]

I have a suppressed 458 socom that I have used 185-600 grain bullets with. Less case volume than the 45-70 so max 458 socom loads are on par with factory 45-70 loads. Still plenty for hogs and 45-70 won't fit in an AR.

 

[Hammerhead]

Suppressed AR in .458 socom?

I gotta' admit, that makes me a bit envious, especially being in a no suppressor state.

 

[Daekar]

Hrmm... well I thought that I had settled on 45 Colt after seeing I could load it with 180 to 350 gr. bullets. But 185-600 sure beats the snot out of that!

How available is 458 Socom brass?

Does it use easily available .452" or .458" bullets?

Can you use cast bullets, or are you limited to jacketed for that cartridge?

... Yes, I know you're not supposed to use lead in a suppressor, but mine will be easy to take apart and clean.

I wonder if I could get an Encore barrel in that chambering? Cause I'm not really interested in an AR.

 

[Jim243]

Rather than make a mistake and hirt yourself, squib, overpressure, etc.

Just go and buy the stuff. Forgive me it sounds like you do not know anything about sub-sonic ammo.

Jim

http://www.thegunsource.com/category/1708-Subsonic_Ammunition.aspx

 

[Adamantium]

Comments like those keep people from posting honest questions and just experimenting on their own. I'd like to see your source of information on that personally.