Which AR Model - WITH Rail or without???

briang2ad

New member
I'm looking at a S&W AR 15. It seems like it would be much cheaper to buy a $40-50 rail system and put it on a 'lesser' model than buy one WITH the rail system on it? Also, it would be cheaper to buy a straight flat top and put an aftermarket flip up rear sight on it - right?


OR - is the quality of the S&W rail and flip sight that much better????

Thanks!
 

RT

New member
IIRC, S&W uses Troy sights and railed foreends. You can buy them individually if you want that brand.
 

briang2ad

New member
It is confusing though.

There is the free-floating full length rail model with both flippy sights ($1069)

There is the rail model with bird cage ($879)

There is the detachable handle AND bird cage model ($699)

We want ONE of these - but which is BEST for the first M4/AR???

You can get A set of sights for $100 and a rail system for $40 - but I guess they are el cheapo

Any opinions???
 

BigPapa4147

New member
IIRC, the Troy Industries quad rail is around $200, and the sights are about $150 each, front and rear. The nice thing abot the M&P-15T is that you get a continuous top rail, with no interupption by the barrel nut. And its free-floating and you get a longer sight-radius.
 

Ridge_Runner_5

New member
Buy standard handguards for now. They are comfy, and do the job that 95% of shooters will want/need. I'd honestly recommend an M&P-15 MOE. Very comfortable and functional aftermarket furniture.

Dont buy a cheap ass rail system. They are heavy as hell, made poorly, and fit poorly.
 

DnPRK

New member
Pay for the free float rail. It eliminates inaccuracy due to changing barrel harmonics between shots caused by varying pressure on non-floated handguards. Plus the rail can be used to mount optics.
 

Ridge_Runner_5

New member
Accuracy changes from a free float barrel would not be noticed out to several hundred yards.

And please, don't mount optics on the handguards, regardless of what kind they are. Keep them on the receiver, it's truer to the barrel.
 

KyJim

New member
The hardware SW puts on their rifles are top notch so you would probably pay as much or more if you bought the same hardware and put it on yourself.

You need to think what you want to do with this rifle. If you want a mid-range rifle for range plinking, etc. go with the sightless model and get a scope with magnification. However, if you want a basic home defense/shtf rifle, then get some with iron sights. You may want folding sights, especially the rear sights, if you want any kind of optic. You can place an optic on the rail on top of the receiver.

The quad rail system (non-free floated) is for all the extra gadgets some people put on -- flashlight, foregrip, etc. but not additional optics. For this the free floated barrel is better.
 

pilpens

New member
Good choice for 1st AR.
CDNN has .223 S&W for $599(optics ready) and $699 (with sights).
MOE version looks good.
I have a 5.45x39 S&W carbine -- my setup is as follows:
MOE stock, Nikon 1-4 scope, Burris PEPR mount. Magpul MIAD grip. Magpul VFG mounted on handguard with MI bolt-on rail. Left the front sight/gas block on. I use to have a fixed DD rear sight on it for a short time but I like the scope better.
If I wanted a light, I would get a light mount that attaches to the gas block.
 

cgbills

New member
I personally do not like rail systems on my M4’s. Most people in the civilian world do not need those rails up front. If you were a ground pounder and needed to mount your AN/PEQ-2 for night fire maybe. Most civilians use the rails to mount sweet mall ninja items, items that are not needed. Since I have no need for any of these in my civilian life, I just have the standard hand guards on. Also you do not need those rails to mount optics. Just stick a red dot on the flat top and call it a day. The regular guards are lighter which in turn, for me, makes the weapon point and hold better. Oh and if you are wanting a gangster grip, just grab the magwell, much better IMO.
 

tirod

Moderator
Nobody uses a sling attached to the barrel to improve accuracy. The major mistake is attempting a precision rifle technique on rifles that are NOT set up to be used that way. Complaints about sling use moving the point of impact on M16's with handguards are really an admission the user doesn't have a clue about what they are really doing. The answer is simple, don't use the sling. The Infantry School taught us to remove the sling in the field, so train like you fight, don't use it on the range. It doesn't shift the point of aim then.

I know single point slings are all the fad, it comes from three gun shooters who transition to pistols. That's a competition range technique. Most soldiers aren't issued pistols, and three gunners - running free floats - also use a rear swivel at the back or front of the receiver, not the front of the handguard.

Lots of the features of the lastest fad - the M4 - aren't for individuals. Think through what you need, if it's looking cool, go for it, but that doesn't justify the actual use for a lot of shooters.

As for the free float and accuracy improvement, there are tubes that can do it lighter. Unfortunately, the whole market for CNC handguards is way overpriced, $200 - 450 for a 1/2MOA improvement is a bit high. A better barrel can deliver that.
 

tirod

Moderator
It's not worth it if you aren't trained or have the equipment to fully use either.

The monetary value of the equipment really isn't the question - it's whether the individual will actually be a better shooter with it. You can't buy better shooting with equipment, you have to have the ability to do that. Then the equipment isn't a hindrance because the ability overcomes the obstacles.

Case in point, a three gun shooter can win matches with a AK47 - but only if they are good. A shooter with no skill couldn't win with a $2500 AR, $1500 race pistol, or a full race shotgun at all. They would have some cool toys to shoot but no ability past throwing rocks.

Most enhancements sold for shooting need ability to take advantage of them, they are basically wasted money for the average shooter.

If this is a first carbine, a CMMG Bargain Bin for $599 would be the best choice, shoot it and discover what needs improvement in skill before throwing money around making the rifle better than the shooter.
 

Ridge_Runner_5

New member
OK - time for a comparison.

MOE: Is it worth the extra $170 bucks for the reas sight, grip, stock, and forearm over the rail model???

From the Magpul website:

MOE Stock: $60
MOE Grip: $21
Handguards: $30
MBUS Rear: $58

Total = $169 + shipping

CMMG Bargain Bin is exactly that, products of random quality and specs. I'd buy an S&W over that any day.
 

KyJim

New member
I have the M&PX and have been pleased with it but I am only an occasional rifle shooter. To me, the extra money for the MOE would not be worth it. For others it might.

I would also pass on the bargain bin CMMGs. If you haven't locked in on the SW series and want a basic, solid rifle at a good price, look at the DoubleStar at $669 at Bud's. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/753/products_id/411537957

Add a folding rear sight and a red dot (when you can afford it) and you've got a nice rifle.
 
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