Which 10mm to get? DW, Glock, Kimber, EAA...

[IM_Lugger]

Wanted a 10mm for a LOOONG time now and with my birthday coming up I think this might be the time...

Contenders are; Dan Wesson RZ-10, Glock 20 OD, Kimber Target II and EAA Witness Steel.

This will be a range gun only. I will be shooting my reloads 99% of the time and will be reusing brass many times. Also will be loading on a hot side (IMO no point in getting a 10mm and shooting .40 power loads) So would like as much chamber support as I can get. Price is a factor as well; so my most realistic choice is EAA

Reliability and durability are very important, I don't mind changing springs but I don't want to tinker any more with it.

I’m not new to guns, but never owned a 10mm before so looking for some input.

 

[Alleykat]

Get the G20 and buy a Lonewolf Dist. barrel. Your brass will last a lot longer.

 

[pinotguy]

The RZ is a fantastic pistol. I can't recommend it enough. Their PM-7 in 10mm isn't too shabby either.

 

[kristop64089]

I vote for the Witness because it's what I have.

It's a heavy gun, so not good fo ccw.

Accuracy is as good as my CZ(which is awesome)
Ya get the option of Cocked And Locked.
The weight tames the recoil.
The only thing that could be a draw back is, the front sight is part of the slide. Needing milling to change.

Awesome gun that also gives you the platform for 5 other calibers!
Noone else can claim that(I don't think)

 

[Officer's Match]

If you're talking strictly range, I'd flip a coin between the DW and the G20, and if it came up either heads or tails, get both.

 

[ranburr]

Get an ELite series Witness.

ranburr

 

[Harry Callahan]

Check out the S&W 10 series pistols. Never had the pleasure of firing one but they look nice and I don't think I've ever heard of anyone dissatisfied with one. Eats even the heaviest 10mm loads without a hiccup from what I've read. Definitely on my "must have sometime" list!

 

[IM_Lugger]

Looks like Glock is leading the pack...hmm

I'm concered that I might have a problem with hotter reloads, and would hate to spend more money on an aftermarket barrel. Plus OD G20 isn't easy to find

I know DW also uses unspported barrels as well...but I don't have a 1911 yet and wanted

I would like to hear from Dan wesson owners about the reliability. Is it picky about ammo?

 

[MTMilitiaman]

Get the Glock:

It ain't purty, but it is tough, reliable, durable, simple to operate and maintain, and take take whatever you throw at it. Plus, it has good capacity.

I'd almost suggest the 29 over the 20, because it is even more versitile in that you retain 90+ percent of the longer barrel's capabilities while being more compact and concealable. Either way, you can't go wrong with the Glock 10mms.

Personally, I think the 10mm is still with us because of the Glock 10s, and Mike McNett. Bless them both.

 

[IM_Lugger]

Can anyone post a pic of the Glock 20 chamber?

 

[Silentarmy]

Here is your chamber pic

I have the DW PM-7 in .45 and it is the finest gun I have fired. For about 500 bucks less money, It has EVERY feature that Kimbers high end stuff and SA "LOADED" (loose term there) offer. I do not know if the barrel in the 10mm is unsupported or not. I have not even heard or read such. I have the Glock 20 and load 180 gr stuff for it and I can get 4 loads before the cases grow out of spec ( I don't trim pistol brass, its time to throw it in the scrap cuz its dangerous!) This pic should show the chamber support (or lack of).
The case on a 10mm is .010 thicker at the base than a .40S&W case (.035=.40, .045=10mm) The 10mm fired through the glock 20 shows little or no bulge even in +p pressures from such as Double tap ammo. The .40 Show significant case bulge and has resulted in many failures in reloads and factory ammo alike.

 

[ranburr]

I have the DW PM-7 in .45 and it is the finest gun I have fired.

You need to shoot more guns!

 

[MTMilitiaman]

The 10mm fired through the glock 20 shows little or no bulge even in +p pressures from such as Double tap ammo.

This is incorrect usage of the term. Double Tap 10mm Auto is not "+P." It may be loaded close to SAAMI specs, but doesn't exceed them.

I believe it is wise to get an aftermarket barrel and a stronger 20 or 22 pound spring for the Glock 20. The barrel is nice because it improves case life, but isn't really necessary, I suppose. The same can be said about the 20 or 22 pound spring. It helps keep brass from skipping to another area code, and smooths the recoil characteristics out, but the pistol will function without either of these modifications.

I have a KKM Precision and a 20 pound ISMI recoil spring on a Glockmeister stainless guide rod, but that is the only mods I've done with my Glock.

I don't have any pics laying around of the Glock chamber empty, but here's a pic I took of the Glock factory barrel next to the KKM, with a Double Tap 180 gr Gold Dot in each:

 

[Silentarmy]

Ranburr... You have No Idea! I have not fired anything over the $2300 price range but this USED Dan wesson was better than SA's Rob Leatham or ANY Kimber, including the Diamond Grade!
MT You are correct, Double Tap loads them to the MAX without having to stamp them +P! Your Chamber support pics appear to be Identical! Your 20 is However at least 1.5 Generation Newer than mine and a considerable amount has changed in that time to bring down the KB frequency. The Double Tap Brass is also .002-.004 thicker than others and handles the excess pressures well.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

It doesn't show up well in pictures, but the Glock factory chamber is noticeably looser than the KKM. You can put your thumb on the round and wiggle it around more, and I was getting some bulging in my brass because of it. The chamber on the KKM is tighter and offers slightly more support, and either through polishing, ramp geometry, general construction and quality, or the right amount of voodoo black magic, I haven't noticed any difference at all in reliability between the two.

 

[ranburr]

Ranburr... You have No Idea! I have not fired anything over the $2300 price range but this USED Dan wesson was better than SA's Rob Leatham or ANY Kimber, including the Diamond Grade!

Actually, I do. I have owned DWs in the past. They are generally pretty good guns, especially if you can find some of the older forged models. But, they don't compare to better 1911s. When I say better, I am talking Rock Rivers, Baers, etc. And I have to say, I would take a Springer over a DW just for the forged frame. But, you are correct in that a DW is a very nice gun for the money.

 

[Webleymkv]

Also will be loading on a hot side (IMO no point in getting a 10mm and shooting .40 power loads) So would like as much chamber support as I can get. Price is a factor as well; so my most realistic choice is EAA

Reliability and durability are very important, I don't mind changing springs but I don't want to tinker any more with it.

Hmmm, based on your comments you need to search the used market for one of these

S&W 1076: Built like a tank, extremely reliable, much better chamber support than the Glock, and a better repuation than the EAA.

 

[IM_Lugger]

thanks for the pics guys!

Silentarmy what generation is your G20?

MTMilitiaman I’m guessing yours in gen. 3 Glock? Btw from that angle the two barrels appear to be very close. And I’m guessing it has more support than the barrel in the Silentarmy’s post. Do you agree or is it just the photo angle that is different?

ranburr are you saying that new (post CZ) DW 1911 aren’t made of forged steel? They don’t have cast frames do they?

 

[ranburr]

Cast frames from Essex. I will say that they are the best that Essex has ever made. But, they are still an Essex frame.

 

[IM_Lugger]

not too familiar with Essex arms...

So I'm guessing all DW models inlc. Pointman and Comander also have case frames or is it just RZ-10?


What about Kimber? what kind of frames do they use?