What's your longest shot with iron sights
- Thread starter bspillman
- Start date
Pathfinder45
New member
Not all iron sights are equal. Some are a whole lot better than others. Some of the more basic iron sights aren't very good at 100 yards, even in the best of light. Many aperture sights can easily double your useful range.
Pathfinder45
New member
Post Script: I recommend initial sighting-in at 25 yards, then quickly moving on to 50, then 75, then 100 yards. After that, you will likely be disappointed until you upgrade your sights.
Pathfinder45:
That covers it pretty well. My longest? During 9 years in the Marine Corps I qualified with a M14 over a course of 200, 300 and 500 Meters once a year. This involved shooting off hand, sitting, kneeling and at the 500 meter line the prone position.
If you wish to learn to shoot and shoot well I suggest you find a local club which host Appleseed shoots and NRA High Power Matches which teach good shooting habits and can be a hell of a lot of fun. You will also have good coaching and teaching which make a big difference in learning how to shoot well. Things like sight picture and alignment, holding and squeezing as well as hopw to control your breathing.
Ron
That covers it pretty well. My longest? During 9 years in the Marine Corps I qualified with a M14 over a course of 200, 300 and 500 Meters once a year. This involved shooting off hand, sitting, kneeling and at the 500 meter line the prone position.
If you wish to learn to shoot and shoot well I suggest you find a local club which host Appleseed shoots and NRA High Power Matches which teach good shooting habits and can be a hell of a lot of fun. You will also have good coaching and teaching which make a big difference in learning how to shoot well. Things like sight picture and alignment, holding and squeezing as well as hopw to control your breathing.
Ron
New to rifle shooting?
I suggest 25 yards with a .22lr and start with a nice big target like the NRA 100 yard smallbore target ..... work out to a 100, keeping in mind that though the 22 does not recoil enough to notice, you have to hold onto it like it will kick the hell out of you if you don't because if you develop bad habits and practice them, that Mosin will beat you black and blue. Start on a nice solid bench with sandbags or a rifle rest, concentrate on the fundamentals of controlling your breathing, maintaining a good shooting position and hold on the gun, getting a good sight picture and keeping it, executing a good steady trigger squeeze and good follow though (staying in the gun and maintaining all of the above through the shot) and establish how well the gun shoots when well supported. Now attempt to shoot it that well from proper field positions (prone, sitting, kneeling, standing offhand) .....learn to use a sling as a shooting aid for the prone, sitting and kneeling ..... shoot up to the .22 from field positions and then rinse and repeat with the mosin...... once you have the mosin down at 100, move back in 100 or 200 yard increments until you either run out of targets, money for ammo, or undamaged shoulder tissue ....... have fun.....
ps- the mosin shoots better if you handload for it...... and you will too. It will save you zero money, but you'll shoot a lot more. More trigger time is good.
I like 47gr of IMR 4064 under a .311" Sierra 150gr SP ..... in Prvi brass with a WLR primer. YMMV.
As far as "longest shot with irons"? I've made quite a few really stupid long shots (well over 400 yards) with a 22 lr ..... but as a percentage of shots like that I've taken, mostly in my misspent youth, it's a pretty low percentage .... hitting a crow in the middle of a 640 acre field or a pigeon on the other side of a canyon is more a matter of lots of luck than skill ...... even a blind squirrel finds a nut on occasion ..... but you learn a lot about wind drift and trajectory by trial and error ..... there is no substitute for trigger time.
More recently I have popped some milk jugs with one of my Mosins at 300 yards .... there was less luck involved in that.
More recently I have popped some milk jugs with one of my Mosins at 300 yards .... there was less luck involved in that.
OK, then just start at the bench with the Mosin, and establish what is the smallest 100 yard group you can get there..... and then go from there.... I am a big fan of the M1907 sling as a shooting aid...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsUaujfiB8
There are all sorts of tricks to accurizing a Mosin ..... just don't expect stellar accuracy from a stock gun and surplus ammo.
There are all sorts of tricks to accurizing a Mosin ..... just don't expect stellar accuracy from a stock gun and surplus ammo.
bamaranger
New member
platforms
The Mosin is not the best tool with which to start shooting "long" distances. They were affordable, and ammo too, and were attractive for that reason. The sights on the Mosin are typical blade and leaf battle sights, with little to no easy adjustment for windage, and little more for elevation. Plus, with the assorted heavy ball ammo (yellow tipped ?) that was so common on the market when Mosin's were really cheap, they kick like mad.
If you are familiar with the AR "on duty" (?), then I suggest, if possible, you acquire and shoot an AR, likely the full size A2 rifle with aperature sights. Your results will be far better most likely, than with the Mosin.
If it just must be the Mosin, I'd start on a generous target like a 10" paper plate, at 100 from the bench, and see about group size and consistency. Some old Mosins are not capable of decent accuracy, some are. My thought is that if the rifle is not capable of less than than a benched 3-4 " group at 100, you are probably working against yourself at shooting more than 300 yds or so. If you are not getting groups of any respectable size at 100, determine if it is you or the rifle. Get another shooter involved and see how they group. If your control shooter does OK, you may need more time on your .22.
The x54r cartridge is serious medicine despite it's age, and if your rifles bore is good, will carry accurately way out there, 600 yds+ is probably possible on a discernable target.
The Mosin is not the best tool with which to start shooting "long" distances. They were affordable, and ammo too, and were attractive for that reason. The sights on the Mosin are typical blade and leaf battle sights, with little to no easy adjustment for windage, and little more for elevation. Plus, with the assorted heavy ball ammo (yellow tipped ?) that was so common on the market when Mosin's were really cheap, they kick like mad.
If you are familiar with the AR "on duty" (?), then I suggest, if possible, you acquire and shoot an AR, likely the full size A2 rifle with aperature sights. Your results will be far better most likely, than with the Mosin.
If it just must be the Mosin, I'd start on a generous target like a 10" paper plate, at 100 from the bench, and see about group size and consistency. Some old Mosins are not capable of decent accuracy, some are. My thought is that if the rifle is not capable of less than than a benched 3-4 " group at 100, you are probably working against yourself at shooting more than 300 yds or so. If you are not getting groups of any respectable size at 100, determine if it is you or the rifle. Get another shooter involved and see how they group. If your control shooter does OK, you may need more time on your .22.
The x54r cartridge is serious medicine despite it's age, and if your rifles bore is good, will carry accurately way out there, 600 yds+ is probably possible on a discernable target.
My longest shot was about 30 years ago in the California desert. The group agreed it was about 500 yards. Target was an abandoned power pole so the target measured about 12" wide by 30' tall. Aimed at middle and bullet hit 10' directly in front of pole. Hmm...25 feet of drop at this range.
Held bead above rear blade a tad and aimed at top of pole. About 5 seconds after firing second shot WHACK could be heard drifting across the desert.
This is what I was shooting. Load was a lead 405 at 1,200 FPS.
Held bead above rear blade a tad and aimed at top of pole. About 5 seconds after firing second shot WHACK could be heard drifting across the desert.
This is what I was shooting. Load was a lead 405 at 1,200 FPS.
BPCR people shoot a mile with their irons on black powder cartridge rifles. I tried it. Took a few shots but did it.
A new world record "iron sight' shot was just made last week using a Swiss K-31.
When I shot for the AK NG we did a lot of 1000 yard NRA Matches. I used mainly a Model 70 300 WM and M14. The Model 70 was used in both the Any Rifle, Any Sight, and Any Rifle, Iron sights. The M14 for the service rifle matches.
In checking some of my old score books, the overall scores were better with the M14, followed by the M-70 using irons.
My problem with the irons is I had to be more careful not to cross fire.
Long range shooting with the service rifle use to be taught by our Army. Look at the sights on the 73 Trapdoor through the M1903. They are graduated to 2000 yards or so.
The M1903A3 shortened that to 800 yards. The M1/M14 went back to 1200. We dont have quality sights like that on todays service rifles. Although some good 1000 yards scores are fired today using AR/M16s. I shot a couple my self.
The older sights (M 1873 through M1903 took into account spin drift and had the corrections built into the sights.
Irons are no different then any other sighting system. All it takes is learning the sights and practice plus a bit of math helps.
Technique needs to be adjusted. The spot check weld isnt too hot as pictured in my M1895 45/70 with the sights set for a mile.
A new world record "iron sight' shot was just made last week using a Swiss K-31.
When I shot for the AK NG we did a lot of 1000 yard NRA Matches. I used mainly a Model 70 300 WM and M14. The Model 70 was used in both the Any Rifle, Any Sight, and Any Rifle, Iron sights. The M14 for the service rifle matches.
In checking some of my old score books, the overall scores were better with the M14, followed by the M-70 using irons.
My problem with the irons is I had to be more careful not to cross fire.
Long range shooting with the service rifle use to be taught by our Army. Look at the sights on the 73 Trapdoor through the M1903. They are graduated to 2000 yards or so.
The M1903A3 shortened that to 800 yards. The M1/M14 went back to 1200. We dont have quality sights like that on todays service rifles. Although some good 1000 yards scores are fired today using AR/M16s. I shot a couple my self.
The older sights (M 1873 through M1903 took into account spin drift and had the corrections built into the sights.
Irons are no different then any other sighting system. All it takes is learning the sights and practice plus a bit of math helps.
Technique needs to be adjusted. The spot check weld isnt too hot as pictured in my M1895 45/70 with the sights set for a mile.
Josh Smith
Moderator
Hello,
That Mosin may or may not have an acceptable trigger. Probably not. Polish it and then try it. As designed, it was a surprise break and some folks shoot best with this type of trigger.
The rifle will probably shoot high. Evidence is that these were sighted in with the bayonet affixed; most shoot correctly if you slap a bayonet on.
Regards,
Josh
That Mosin may or may not have an acceptable trigger. Probably not. Polish it and then try it. As designed, it was a surprise break and some folks shoot best with this type of trigger.
The rifle will probably shoot high. Evidence is that these were sighted in with the bayonet affixed; most shoot correctly if you slap a bayonet on.
Regards,
Josh
Probably not what you're looking for with your question....but
For about the last 20 years the standard "game" [with best friend and godsons] over at our property/Cabin in Eastern WA is.....
9" gong, or empty 1lb propane cans at 300 yards with iron sighted .22 rimfire [Win #69, 52 and 1890 and Remington 587 and Marlin 39A].
Hits are consistent ...... maybe more so for the godsons these days... doggone young eyes.
For about the last 20 years the standard "game" [with best friend and godsons] over at our property/Cabin in Eastern WA is.....
9" gong, or empty 1lb propane cans at 300 yards with iron sighted .22 rimfire [Win #69, 52 and 1890 and Remington 587 and Marlin 39A].
Hits are consistent ...... maybe more so for the godsons these days... doggone young eyes.
Don Fischer
New member
I'm so old I can't remember and eye's bad enough I can't use them now. 
Well wait, I hit a ping pong ball with iron sight's at 1500 yds using a mirror and shooting over my shoulder. All the witness's have passed on and my eye's are so bad I couldn't go out and do it today! Guess you'll just have to trust me!
Well wait, I hit a ping pong ball with iron sight's at 1500 yds using a mirror and shooting over my shoulder. All the witness's have passed on and my eye's are so bad I couldn't go out and do it today! Guess you'll just have to trust me! If you are looking to shoot tiny groups, you will probably be disappointed with the Mosin Nagant, but they are normally quite capable of the accuracy needed for the role for which they were designed, hitting a man-sized target out to any range where a rifleman can pick out and target an individual enemy soldier.
You can improve things a bit by using good ammo, and by doing the things to the rifle the Soviets did when getting them ready for competition. Great discussion and notes from a Soviet era book on the subject here:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?294174-Yur-yev-quot-Sport-Shooting-quot-Book
The Reader's Digest condensed version:
Make sure the barrel does not contact the end cap:
Make sure the action fits snugly in the stock with full contact here:
Make sure the action does not contact the stock here:
Make sure the action does not contact the magazine:
Float the barrel and handguard, then wrap the barrel in cloth or felt even with the front barrel band:
I understand the Finns used cork, but I haven't seen a description of what/where exactly they put it, maybe Josh can provide that info.
Not a Mosin, but here is an example of what you can do with an old rifle with iron sights, shooting my 1917 Mauser at a standard steel IPSC silhouette target, laser ranged at 470 yards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWOePGiaBcM
I have done the same thing with a mosin, just didn't have video running.
You can improve things a bit by using good ammo, and by doing the things to the rifle the Soviets did when getting them ready for competition. Great discussion and notes from a Soviet era book on the subject here:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?294174-Yur-yev-quot-Sport-Shooting-quot-Book
The Reader's Digest condensed version:
Make sure the barrel does not contact the end cap:
Make sure the action fits snugly in the stock with full contact here:
Make sure the action does not contact the stock here:
Make sure the action does not contact the magazine:
Float the barrel and handguard, then wrap the barrel in cloth or felt even with the front barrel band:
I understand the Finns used cork, but I haven't seen a description of what/where exactly they put it, maybe Josh can provide that info.
Not a Mosin, but here is an example of what you can do with an old rifle with iron sights, shooting my 1917 Mauser at a standard steel IPSC silhouette target, laser ranged at 470 yards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWOePGiaBcM
I have done the same thing with a mosin, just didn't have video running.
jetinteriorguy
New member
Back in the early 70's I sold an old Springfield '06 to a friend of mine. A couple of years later I was visiting his grandfather whom I worked for in high school. He was an avid hunter and Reloader. He went to one of his many gun cabinets and grabbed this beautiful rifle and handed it to me, and asked if it felt familiar. Wow, it was the old Springfield after having it sporterized. My friend Paul had given it to him as a Christmas present unknown to me. We went out front to the shooting table, he handed me five rounds and pointed at an object across the coulee, said it was a five gallon can at 650 yards. He told me where to hold over, so I adjusted the sling and settled in. The first round hit just in front but I nailed it with the next four. Sure wished I could have talked him out of it but unfortunately, no way. Guess I never should have sold it in the first place, I always could shoot the dickens out of that thing.