What's wrong with this picture?

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rampage841512

New member
bullet.jpg


Three rounds of Corbon .45 +P

Okay, while inspecting the ammo in my carry gun (Kimber Stainless Custom II) a few months ago I found that one round seemed to have the bullet impacted deep into the case. I set it aside thinking it was probably the result of a mis-feed, but I've been keeping a better eye on my rounds since then. Inspecting them all again this past week I saw that most of the rounds' bullets seemed to be jammed further into their cases than they are supposed to be (see the above picture, the last round is a 'normal' one).

Doing a little experimenting it seems that this tends to happen every time I use the slide release, as opposed to just manually operating the slide. Anybody else have this problem with a gun? How big of a problem is it? (I've set the impacted rounds aside because I can't see them being at all safe)
 
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sandbag

New member
That is really strange.I imagine evryone with an automatic uses the slide release at least when inserting a new magazine.I normally rack the slide with the first mag,but that's it.Maybe the problem is with the ammo.:confused:
 
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SilentHitz

New member
I think it may be an ammo problem also. I've never seen this in various 1911's I've owned over the years, and regularly use the slide release. Is all the suspect ammo from the same lott #? :confused:
 
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Moe Howard

New member
I have never had that problem with a 9mm or .45 but I do with .357sig, but only with Speer Gold Dots, not with the Winchester JHP which is why I carry the Winchesters most of the time.
 
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wayneinFL

New member
I rarely use the slide release. The only gun I've had a a similar problem with is my Kel-Tec P11. The rounds impact the feed ramp hard enough to push the bullet back into the case. It's only noticeable if I do it repeatedly with the same round, so I rotate them in the mag once in a while.
 
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rampage841512

New member
I think it may be an ammo problem also. I've never seen this in various 1911's I've owned over the years, and regularly use the slide release. Is all the suspect ammo from the same lott #?
Click to expand...

Yep. It seems to take multiple times to get as bad as the far left round, but it's got me a little worried.
 
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jhco50

Moderator
I have seen similar problems in revolvers if there is not a good grimp on the rounds. I have seen them actually slide forward under recoil and tie up the cylinder.

Your rounds may not be tight enough in the case mouth and when you are firing or use the slide release, it may be slamming them forward on the magazine wall. You may need to run them through a tighter die.
 
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BillCA

New member
I rarely use the slide release. The only gun I've had a a similar problem with is my Kel-Tec P11. The rounds impact the feed ramp hard enough to push the bullet back into the case. It's only noticeable if I do it repeatedly with the same round, so I rotate them in the mag once in a while.
Click to expand...

I discussed this with reps from Federal and Winchester some time ago. I'm told that most commercial manufacturers (but not all) add a thin sealant around the case mouth. This sealant performs two functions. First is to prevent bullet-setback on taper-crimped rounds like 9mm & .45ACP and secondly as a moisture barrier.

Both reps said that the best you should expect, if you chamber a round from the magazine is 3 feeds without breaking the seal. After that, the bullet can set back into the case. While it can take a dozen feeds to make it happen, they say don't rely on it past three feeds.

I did a test, using several brands of ammo in both FMJ and JHP. Some rounds I fed off the magazine by releasing the slide. Others I fed by easing the slide forward until the cartridge started to feed, then releasing the slide.

The results? Dropping the slide like an anvil resulted in one case giving up after 6 feeds and three others after 10 feeds. The one that only went 6 feeds was a generic FMJ.

Releasing the slide and easing it forward provided the best results. The first case that gave up (surprisingly a premium JHP round) finally pushed the bullet back after 13 feeds. Most of them went beyond 15 feeds.
Note: This was a rough test and the OAL was not measured each time. Failure was declared when the bullet was visibly moved back.

JHP's were more prone to setback because they don't always have a smooth transistion on the feed ramp. Since this wasn't "scientific" and only a limited number of rounds were used, I won't name the brands. I did not test Cor-Bon or Hornady ammo however.
 
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berkbw

New member
The act of chambering a round may cause setback. Chambering the same round makes it worse. With most powders, the case pressures go up dramatically when the bullet is set more deeply in the case. This can cause the dreaded KB [KaBoom].

Always rotate your previously chambered rounds to the range ammo bag. If they get as bad as the photo, take them apart and reassemble, or toss.

b-
 
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hoytinak

New member
My Springfield 1911 does it with Speer Gold Dots all the time. I just pull the bullet back out to where it's supposed to be and re-crimp it.
 
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Double Naught Spy

New member
To avoid said problems, I don't recycle ammo. I sacrifice the chambered round with each range session. It is a good way to cycle through your ammo slowly and prevents you from having setback issues.
 
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SilentHitz

New member
Yep. It seems to take multiple times to get as bad as the far left round, but it's got me a little worried.
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OK, since it's the same lot #, I suspect a few may have gotten through with a "weak crimp".

Just use DNS's advice, and sacrifice the few offending rounds, or set them aside for reloading components. I wouldn't toss the entire lot, shoot the rest, and continue checking with other ammo to see if the problem continues with a different lot# or brand.
 
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WIL TERRY

New member
It Took A Big Time Thump To Move That Bullet Past The Cannalure It Was Resting Upon !

FURTHERMORE, the thing I saw first was the absense of a cannalure on the first round. Are you telling us the whole and entire truth here ??
 
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Curtis(USAF)

New member
Its' frequently happened to some of my cheap range FMJ, but I've never had it happen to a round with a good crimp on it. Man, it really did a number to the crimping on that far left one.

I try to cycle the ammo in my carry magazines to keep that from happening. Otherwise you wear the daylights out of the top two rounds. Don't forget to inspect the rims, after multiple ejections, the rims will start getting worn out. It could theoretically get bad enough that a fired cartridge wouldn't want to eject. The ejector could rip a chunk out of the rim, and leave the cartridge in place. Eventually you just have to give up and shoot or rebuild the worn cartridges.

BTW, how long have you had those rounds? If its happening to new ammo you have a serious issue. If you've had the ammo for a long time, you haven't been properly rotating your ammo stockpile. You can't expect a box of JHP to last forever. Eventually you have to shoot the old stuff and buy some new.

The age and personality of the gun has something to do with it to. Some guns just eat up ammo, nothing you can do about it. New guns seem to be rougher on ammo. As the gun wears with age and shooting, the springs, rails, and feed ramp, and extractor smooth out and lose any burrs they may have had. The wear and tear on cartridges isn't as bad as it used to be.
 
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Mal H

Staff
I've gotta agree with Wil Terry, it's going to take a lot of force to make the bullet deform the case cannelure the way the first two have, loose crimp or not. The second round in the picture is already starting to push out the case cannelure.

And do I detect a case mouth split in the first round? Surely looks like one.

Tell us more about the pistol itself. Have you had any work done on it like a new recoil spring? New barrel or ramp work done?
 
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chris in va

New member
I had setback problems like that with some Powrball in my P11. Chamber it a couple times, the bullet gets seated further in the case.

I was told NOT to shoot a setback bullet as pressure might be too much for the gun.
 
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tipoc

New member
Notice the round on the right. Reminds me of Goldilocks and the porridge. One too hot, one too cold, one just right. In terms of bullet set back. Now look at the brass of the round on the right. There is a small divot on the case mouth. This goes with the split case mouth on the one on the left.

3 rounds of factory ammo with 3 different oals?

New factory ammo? The brass looks more like a rushed reload. If new it looks like someone was putting some stress on it somehow.

tipoc
 
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