What's wrong with the M9?

S

Saab1911

New member
Even 1911 loyalists have come to grudgingly admit that the M9 has proven
itself as a sidearm. Heck, it's been a good twenty three years since the M9
was adopted as a U.S. infantry sidearm.

The only remaining two complaints about the M9 are that it is not chambered
for 45 ACP and that it is not a 1911. Other than that, I have not heard any
genuine complaints.

I know that the early M9's had slide failure issues due to high pressure 9mm
ammunition. There were also some more issues with low quality third party
magazines.

Those are teething problems. Even the 1911 had teething problems. That's
why the M1911A1 was developed.

So, what are legitimate gripes with the M9/92FS? I want to know because
the 92FS is on my short list of pistols to buy in the near future.

Cheers,

Jae
 
4

45_Shooter

New member
Busting locking blocks on a regular basis isn't exactly stellar IMO. I think even Beretta only gives them 15k to failure.

The grip is very large and people with small hands have trouble.

The safety system is designed backwards and redundantly at that.

Sights are difficult to mess with; the front is part of the slide

Aluminum frames give out way before steel

It's a friggin huge 9mm!

Basically it's not very ergonomic or incredibly durable; it is however reliable.
 
O

overkill556x45

New member
I dislike the M9 because of the way the Army maintains weapons: if it is worn out, but not "broken", it does not get fixed. My M9's trigger could be pushed out the sides of the trigger frame, had a HORRID trigger pull from SA and DA, the sights were off, and the issued mags were AWFUL! (this was 2004). My hands are not small by any means, and the M9 grip is like holding to a 4" drainage pipe. I don't know why a 9mm needs to be that big. My experience with the M9 led me to buy a Glock 17 when I got back from the sandbox.

Fast forward to 2008 and a buddy bought a Beretta 96. The grip is FAR smaller and more ergonomic than the M9 (even though the 96 is a .40SW). The trigger is better by a long shot, and the overall quality was much higher. Did Beretta screw the Army? No, maintainence wasn't up to par.

Similar things happened to Army 1911 shooters in the 1970s- the 1911's were poorly maintained, and mostly worn out after decades of use and abuse (inaccurate, unreliable, etc). I let a former MP (1970-1976ish) shoot my Springfield 1911 in .45 and he made me an offer for it on the spot! Said something like "I never saw a 1911 shoot like that!". Apparently he had not picked up a 1911 since he got out because of his experience in the Army.
 
C

CzCasull

New member
Size I don't think matters as far as it being a "big 9mm" it's a gun that shoots 9mm not a 9mm that shoots gun haha..

The grips are kinda big and there's no arguing that.. though they are perfect for me :D
I found I was able to lift it right up and get a great sight picture.

I do like the way it looks but I do think the slide needs to be able to be racked from the front easily on a combat arm.

The good thing about it being open is you can load rounds into the chamber directly and easily if your mags get damaged.

If I were in the military I'd prefer use of a Sig.
 
M

MTS840

New member
The only remaining two complaints about the M9 are that it is not chambered for 45 ACP and that it is not a 1911.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that would be a complaint at all. To some people, that may be an improvement on both counts.

The only legitimate complaint about the M9 I could see is the size. A G19 seems to make a lot more sense.
 
S

Saab1911

New member
MTS said:
I'm not sure that would be a complaint at all. To some people, that may be an improvement on both counts.
Click to expand...

Oh no sir, we're not opening that can of worms, again.

So, what I'm hearing are two major beefs (beeves?)

1) Size
2) Durability

Are there any other issues with the M9/92FS?
 
D

Dangerwing

New member
There is a factor that is being forgotten. Most of the people that are part of this forum are avid shooter. We enjoy shooting so much, than when we cant be out shooting, we sit in front of our computers and read/write ABOUT shooting.

Unfortunately, the military is full of people from a whole different world. Many people join the military for the school benefits, the money, or hell just because they dont have any other options. Some join out of a sense of patriotic duty, some join for the commrodery. My point is this, most, if not all, of the members of this forum can safely operate a pistol that has no external safety (like a glock). But thats because we're "shooters" by nature. We maintain muzzle dicipline, we don't put our finger on the trigger until we're ready to shoot, we always make damn sure we know whether or not we have one in the pipe or not. Not all people in the military do this.

Yes, a thumb safety is in many ways redundant, but the more safety redundacies the better when it comes to military personnel.

I could sit here and write 1000 words worth of horror stories about negligent discharges and close calls because of under trained and inexperienced service members being handed weapons and ammo. Plus, if the Commies...Ah hem, I mean Democrats, win the white house this winter, training funds are going to drop even more.

For the past 10 yrs, the US military has had between 800 and 1000 NON BATTLE RELATED deaths. (From this report to congress --> http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf ) I couldnt find statistics on how many were firearm related, but I think you see my point. Giving a 19 y/o girl that has never touched a pistol in her life a G17 after a 1 hour block of training is LESS safe than giving her a pistol with a decock, manual safety, and loaded chamber indicator.

Summary: There is a misconception that "military" people are automatically "gun" people. We need the safest guns possible.

Sorry that was so long.
 
S

SGT-MILLER

New member
My biggest issue is the low quality magazines, and the low "fix it" standards that have been set by the military armories.

Both of these issues can result in loss of life, and that is never acceptable in any situation.
 
R

Recon7

New member
1. Da/Sa triggers are no longer popular.
2. Cheap mags cause many failures. blame of course lies on the mag manufacturer (aftermarket) and the army for purchasing them.
3. Size does matter. many find the mag release difficult to reach, and I carried something like 60lbs of gear while in Afghanistan. When my SL told me I could carry his M9 I told him no thanks. I probably wouldn't have carried a G19 either, but it would have been easier than the M9.

My experience was the M9's were for carrying around the fob so you wouldn't have to sling the m4 around the chow hall. Then you leave it behind when you go on missions, If you go on missions:D

if it is worn out, but not "broken", it does not get fixed.
Click to expand...
Yeah, and if it's broke, replace the wrong part and call it fixed.
 
S

SGT-MILLER

New member
That would bring my morale up too. A SAW tends to get heavy after awhile. It's hard to sit in a crowded DFAC with one of those things.

If only they could fix the problems with the M-9 so the military personnel would be happy with carrying it outside the FOB as well.
 
R

Redneckrepairs

New member
From my experience shooting the 92 series over the years well i have to say Not much . Seems to be a big robust pistol that shoots with acceptable accuracy . It seems to have less " felt recoil " than the 1911 in .45 . It trades off a traditional stopping power for mag cap . IMHO the only bitch about the baretta is the fact that it is entirely too big for the 9mm . Other than that they seem to work , and work in the same conditions that made the 1911 famous . I really dont like them ( da pull , length , ect ), and consider them too dammed big for the cartage , Both of which are personal objections . None of the above effects my love for the 1911 , and none of the above leads me to feel that our troups are underarmed with the pistol selection . Just like in my life ill say that if you can put em down first shot with any pistol , well your spending time on the range that could be better served by surfing porn , no matter what caliber you carry . As bad as i said that i want to say that the 1911 was not the answer to close combat , nor was it the answer to accuracy . The M9 will as a rule shoot " minute of bad guy " at say 50 yards or so . My Kahr pm9 that i carry everyday will do worse than that in some folks hands , and better in mine as well as selected others . Look folks Pistols are frankly the afterthought of defense . I know that what pistol , and what load are vital things for some here . Myself as long as it is .380/38 spec and above i dont worry about caliber . One thing i worry about tho is that the pistol " shoots were it looks " I desire to see the front sight , and i want the pistol to place rounds in a predictable fashon when i register off the front sight . Other than that i would rather have the .380 that shoots where it looks ( say my ppks which i can bounce shot shells at 20 to 25 yards ) than a massive powered pistol which i cannot hit with fast and at all ranges ( say my limited experiance with the S&W .460 or .500 revolvers ) and as a side note i have taken a .460 and popped prairie dogs at over 200 yards . Under 300 dammed thing is a lazier beam for a pistol . With some experiance shown well ill still take the M9 over any gock made . Not only that ill take it over any 1911 made . However if i have a choice ill carry my single stacks .
 
C

Creature

Moderator
There is nothing wrong with the M9. There is nothing wrong with the P226 either. I have carried the M9 as my issue sidearm, but I bought a P226 for my personal collection.
 
D

DocDizz

New member
The military's lack of wanting to provide a decent holster is a big turn off too for those in the service. The "M-12" or w/e it is is absolutely worthless. I hated the safety on mine. The only good things I really had to say about mine were how easy they are to field strip. VERY simple, I sat down and showed Marines how to do it and they were quite adept in a couple of minutes. And, even though it's just a pistol, it's obnoxious to have flopping around on a "tactical" drop holster. And on the waist...
 
B

bigghoss

New member
I carry my issue m9(security for the Department of the Army) in an uncle mikes drop leg pro 3. there are alot of guys with uncle mikes pro 3's either drop leg or jacket slot.
 
E

easyG

Moderator
The grip is very large and people with small hands have trouble.

The safety system is designed backwards and redundantly at that.

Sights are difficult to mess with; the front is part of the slide

Aluminum frames give out way before steel

It's a friggin huge 9mm!

Basically it's not very ergonomic or incredibly durable; it is however reliable.
Click to expand...
I agree 100%.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top