Whats wrong with rifles today?

[mes228]

Guys, I'm an old man, 60 years, and a life long shooter. I also shoot pistols a lot. Today's pistols are better than ever and ACCURATE. But I've had a slew of rifles recently that were so inaccurate it borders on impossible. I purchased a Remington Mountain Rifle that would not shoot for crap (I'm talking one semi accurate round and all others a saucer size pattern).

I purchased a Ruger Ranch rifle in 6.8 cal. - the new "accurate" version. Accurate my butt. A scoped Mossburg shotgun shooting slugs would out shoot the two I shot. I'm talking saucer sized groups at the very best again.

I just returned from the range with a Ruger RSI Mannlicher in .243 and could puke. Love the rifle, great trigger, beautiful but wouldn't be more than a deer gun at 100yds. Groups 4-5 inches or more.

All these rifles had medium priced name brand scopes on them ie Nikon Pro Staff, Bushnell Elites, Leupold VXII etc.

I have rifles that shoot well, and have in the past. I have two AR's that easily shoot 1 1/2" on a bad day. I had a CZ 30-06 that would shoot dime size groups all day long if you could hold it. A Savage .270 that was accurate 1" or so rifle. And many others, but that was a year ago. Today's crop is coming up weeds!

I really believe that I can take two of my 1911 pistols and shoot as well at 100 yds. as all three Rugers and damn near the Rem. Mtn. Rifle. This is not normal for rifles. At least it shouldn't be. Does anyone know why manufactures are some turning out "some" rifles today that are horrible shooters? I've had rifles (in the past - not too long ago) that were really accurate out of the box ie Remington, Ruger Winchester, Weatherby, Howa. But not recently. Ruger should be ashamed to sell the last three I've shot. The Rem. Mtn. Rifle should have never left the factory. I'm beginning to think that CNC milling equiptment and assemblers (not gunsmiths) are turning out beautiful rifles that wont shoot for squat. The gun rags should be ashamed to print the lies they print. Either I'm very unlucky or theirs a butt load of rifles out there that are just the ghost of accuracy that they had a few years ago. These magazines never find them though. Well, I sure have. My next purchase will probably be another CZ or ICON and if they won't shoot I'll buy an older rifle or a custom.

 

[Doodlebugger45]

Actually, I've been seeing and hearing the opposite about new rifles these days. Maybe not the Rugers or Remingtons, but I have heard wonderful things about out-of -the box accuracy of various Savages and the Marlin XR7 and XL7. Those rifles are bargain prices and shoot extremely well.

 

[wingman]

Honestly it's not only rifles but many products, simply its the luck of the draw in our global economy, I believe its a business decision of large manufactures to push a product out the door good or bad and gamble if the consumer will return for repair as large numbers don't because of being too busy or too lazy.

Having said that, for out of the box accuracy and certainly they have quality control issues, Savage appears the best in the price range.

 

[Bigfatts]

That's precisely why I buy old customs or build my own. Today most of the building process is mechanized where 20 or 30 years ago the majority was done by hand.

 

[ZeSpectre]

My experience has been that there is a wider "gap".

The rifles I've played with are generally more accurate than similar models from the past ...however... when you get a lemon it's REALLY a lemon! I've also noticed that modern rifles seem to be a little more particular about which ammo they like and with the "wrong" ammo they are really inconsistent.

This is, of course, purely anecdotal and I've done no scientific testing to back up my claims

 

[BlueTrain]

I'm 63 but I'm not an old man yet. However, for some reason, my eyes aren't what they used to be, if they ever were. They just don't make eyes the way they used to. A gun with open sights (not peep sights) like a Model 94 Winchester or, even worse, any Mauser rifle, is going on impossible to shoot with. I've had to work on my stalking skills.

 

[demigod]

Since when is RUGER associated with QUALITY OR ACCURACY????

 

[5RWill]

From what i've seen and purchased with my last rifle, Remington is not what it used to be. Since Cerebus bought out remington, sure they make some good products, but nowhere near what it used to be. Thank God the action is still the same. As others have stated i hear great things about savage, but i absolutely hate the look of the action so ill never buy one, just personal thing. My last hunting rifle i bought was a sako 85 and it lived up to what it's worth, shoots very well. From what i've seen kimber,remington,ruger have all gone down over the years just not what they used to be. Not to say that they don't have good rifles, i guess they just have more lemons or bad apples in every batch than they did before.

Agreed with Bigfatts nothing like getting one built or doing it yourself, appreciate your work and know it's done right.

 

[kraigwy]

Since when is RUGER associated with QUALITY OR ACCURACY????

The orignial Ruger M77s were great, I'm talking late 60s eary 70s. Having said that, I havent had a new Ruger rifle in 35 years excluding my #1 in 204 when they first came out. That puppy is a shooter.

To reply to the OP, I have one thing to say:

New FN Winchester Model 70.

 

[Bamashooter]

the last 2 rifles that i have purchased are both good shooting rifles. my ruger ranch rifle was shooting 2-3'' groups out of the box. after some upgrades it shoots moa. all i done to it was a trigger job, strut, stock, and recoil buffers.my handi-rifle is a .243 and it will shoot 1.5'' groups with a quality scope on it. its a hunting rifle so im happy with the accuracy. overall im pleased with both rifles.

 

[waterboy68]

My last Ruger M77 in 30-06 (bought within the last 2years) shoots very well from what I can tell. I've been able to get 1.5" groups out of it with Hornady 150g bullets and RL #7powder. That was off of an improvised (translate= shaky) rest. I can't wait to get it on a firm rest to see what it will really do. Maybe it's an exception to the rule. Who knows.

Having said that, I do agree that these days it seems like the quality of many products has gone down hill whether it's tools, yard equipment, furniture, or guns. I expect it from Chinese products, but hate to see american manufacturers doing the same.

 

[thesheepdog]

Ruger is notorious for poor quality guns these days. Ever since they started selling them at Wal-Mart, have I quit buying them.

 

[Rifleman1776]

thesheepdog nailed. Blame Wal-Mart.

 

[ligonierbill]

Well, I'm still a young 60 year old, and while I love the old rifles I have, the new ones shoot just fine. In the last few years, I have purchased a Model 70 Classic Featherweight 6.5x55, Savage "Weather Warrior" .338 Win Mag, and just a few weeks ago a Doublestar AR-15 5.56 NATO. I have managed to group the Winchester at <1" with the right load and foregoing coffee. Still working on .338 loads, but 1 1/2" is no problem. Haven't loaded any for the AR yet, but several brands of non-match ammo go about 3" at 200 yards. For me at least, all these rifles shoot better than I do. And the Savage "Accutrigger" is certainly an improvement.

 

[ammo.crafter]

Hmmm

Why do we, the comsumer, have to tweak brand new rifles. Why can't we expect and/or demand accuracy? My experuence with Ruger #1 is terrible and I've had several.
My olderRremington's are deadly accurate and beautifly made.
I guess it's a sign of the times.....manufacturers simply do not care about quality and rely upon their long history of prior quality and lots of expensive advertising.
Too bad.

 

[Longdayjake]

Since when is RUGER associated with QUALITY OR ACCURACY????

Um... Demigod, have you ever said anything nice about anything?

Ruger is notorious for poor quality guns these days. Ever since they started selling them at Wal-Mart, have I quit buying them.

I will admit that the ruger trigger needs some work, but of all the triggers I have worked on the ruger is by far the easiest. That is all that they are notorious for. Do a search for any model of any gun and you will find those that love them and those that hate them. Looks to me like Rugers have more lovers than haters among those that actually own them. The haters seem to be the ones that don't own them and never have. As far as quality goes I can say that the m77 is one sweet rifle.

I own an M77 MKII in .30-06 from the late 90's that shoots about 1" groups.

I own a new m77 Hawkeye in .223 that can shoot better than me. Here are some videos to prove that. Note that there is quite the wind to battle with too. The rifle does its job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D1sOcPlkMA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFdf_4Sl5-k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvNs86iaf5I&feature=related

Lastly to answer the OP, It may just be that you aren't shooting as well as you used to. I have days when that ruger will shoot into .5 inch groups and days where I can't shoot anything into a group smaller than a "saucer." Its either that or whatever ammo you are shooting may be less than optimum. But I guess there is the off chance that you are the unluckiest person alive and you only buy lemons.

In my experience it is always easier to blame the rifle than the shooter. Heck, I have been known to do it.

 

[thesheepdog]

The haters seem to be the ones that don't own them and never have

My Rugers never pleased me. a 10/22 is an exception, because accuracy is not the biggest issue for a plinker.

Reports of the Mini-14's are good, but there are still many complaints with that Rifle, and their new SR556C. But I'll give the 556C some slack being that it's relatively new.

As far as the bolt-actions. I hear about a 50/50 on performance. Some people think the accuracy sucks, some say they are great. With my experiences, I think Rugers are well over-priced for what you're getting.

 

[davlandrum]

So if you truly believe today's rifles are worse....buy old rifles.

If I picked out 3 random rifles off the shelf today and all of them would not group, my first thought would be that it is a ME problem, not a rifle problem, and have my shooting buddy closely check my shooting form.

Might still be the rifles fault, but that is where I would start.

 

[5RWill]

.manufacturers simply do not care about quality and rely upon their long history of prior quality and lots of expensive advertising.
Too bad.

Thats true, although there are some. Along the lines of hunting rifles, cooper makes a very very crafty product guarantees 1/2 MOA performance. I would say Dakota to but remington bought them out. It's mainly the mainstream products i guess. Because the top of the lines are still top notch and then you have decently sized custom companies that are above excellence in craftsmanship as well.

 

[Longdayjake]

and their new SR556C. But I'll give the 556C some slack being that it's relatively new.

Being a piston driven gun it causes what is called carrier tilt wear on the buffer tube. With my experience the tube from the ruger needs to be replaced after about 5-6000 rounds. I have actually bagged on the Ruger556 for that reason but one thing I have noticed is that it has almost no wear on the bolt and carrier. If the bolt lasts longer than the conventional AR bolt then if you ask me thats a totally fair trade off. How many rounds does a conventional AR bolt last before it needs to be replaced? Also, a buffer tube is cheaper than a new bolt. I didn't like the Ruger556 at first but I am warming up to it.