What's wrong with my shotgun?

[dakota.potts]

I took my new CZ 612 out today to shoot a round of sporting clays. I ended up shooting about 60 rounds before my shoulder couldn't take too much more and I called it for the day.

I had some issues along the way though. In my first set of 10, I had several misfires. There was an audible click, but no fire. Partially opening the action to re-cock it usually allowed me to fire a round. At first, it was assumed that since I was a new shooter and loading my first round directly into the open chamber, I wasn't riding the pump forward far or hard enough. Really bringing it forward did help a little bit.

Examination of the ejected cases revealed that the primers were being dented, but not firing. Usually, after letting them sit a little bit, they would fire if I put them back in again.

The guys I was shooting with noticed that my magazine tube cap would loosen up and back out, and told me that can cause a gap between the receiver and chamber which can create those kinds of issues. It seemed like no matter how tight I turned it, it would back out after a couple of shots. Why did this happen? I was told this can happen if the threads are dry and I need to try some grease?

One of the guys present really cranked it down good by hand, and it didn't seem to really back out after that, although I did only shoot 20 rounds. After this, I had only a few misfires. I had probably 8 misfires my first 20 rounds and only 3 or 4 the last 20. There was one issue where a misfired round fired when struck again, but the bolt locked up and I had to use the action lock and put some extra effort to get that round to eject.

I bought this shotgun for dove season, and I really do want to like it (it's a nice shotgun) but I worry about this performance.

It also occurs to me that I didn't strip it and clean out all of the factory grease before shooting. Can that be a cause?

EDIT: Forgot to mention, I was using Winchester Universal #8 shot. Seems like there are reports of people having issues with this ammo, but not quite to the extent I'm having. It was the cheapest ammo that was there at Walmart - maybe I got burned by that. I did shoot a couple rounds of Rio from somebody else's collection, but not enough to establish consistency with it. He did trade me a box of his Rio for the remainder of my Winchester since his shotgun seemed to shoot it, and I liked the lighter recoil.

 

[FITASC]

Win Universal is about the worst crap you can put in a shotgun to shoot. Even the Federals from Walmart are better (and usually cheaper)

To keep it tight, grease, anti-seize, even white teflon plumber's tape will work - same things for choke tubes that can come loose.

If your shoulder is hurting after 60 rounds of cheap target ammo, it sounds like you have a fit issue - cast, drop at heel, drop at comb, etc - something isn't made to fit you correctly.

It also occurs to me that I didn't strip it and clean out all of the factory grease before shooting.

Why not? Didn't the owner's manual tell you to do that? (It should have)

Give it a thorough cleaning, including the trigger group and inside the action and then buy better ammo.

 

[dakota.potts]

I will try all of the above. I have 5 boxes of Rio or Estate I'll have to try since people apparently like that much more than Winchester Universal. I didn't think it would be a big difference since they were nearly the same price as other cheap target ammo that others commonly use.

So, I'll strip the gun, give the bolt and trigger group a good cleaning, grease the magazine cap, and try some better ammo. I'll take it to the local range and just shoot it against some paper targets to function check.

I've never had a shotgun fitted to me, but I do have a very short wingspan/arm length. I can shoulder it, but it definitely feels a little long and the trigger sits far forward for me. When I start my gunsmithing classes, I may see if my instructor won't help me fit it and adjust the stock for me. I would slip a recoil pad on it in the interim, but it's already long rather than short.

 

[FITASC]

It is easier (although not ideal of course) to shoot a shorter length stock than a longer one where your arms are out of position ir you feel yourself leaning a little backwards.

 

[BigJimP]

I agree with all of the above....clean it / and see if it continues.

The issue of "Fit" ...means the gun needs to hit where you look ...there is no rear sight on a shotgun / so the combination of drop at comb, at heel, length of pull, etc...all add up to "Fit"...

and if the gun is beating you up after only 60 shells...that it may be a combination of "Fit" and "fundamentals"...of grip, mount, follow thru, etc.../ if the gun "Fits" you and your fundamentals are sound --- shooting 300 shells a day should not beat you up ...

But clean it - take it to the pattern board to check the point of impact vs where you look ( 21 yds or so, with a Full choke --- and shoot at a 3" Dot on the pattern board) - and then add comb pad, recoil pad, etc so the gun "Fits".

 

[Chuck Dye]

Just a reminder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjDu5zwa4rM

hangfires happen...

 

[jaguarxk120]

If you do the math on the Winchester Valupack universal shells and compare to Remington Gun Clubs or Federal Top Guns the better shells are about the same price or cheaper.

The youtube video is nice but staged. Many people have reviewed it when it first came out and concluded it was faked.

With todays modern ammunition hang fires are a thing of the past.

 

[dakota.potts]

After thoroughly cleaning it, I took the shotgun back to the range today. I only got to shoot about 40 rounds, but I had only a single malfunction on the first round. Two clicks before it went bang.

On the second click, I noticed that the pump would still slide back and wasn't locked into place. I realized that I've been shooting my shotgun the way I shoot my rifles (using my forward hand to pull the firearm into my shoulder) and that I may be partially unlocking the pump before I fire.

I started putting forward pressure on my support hand, pushing the pump away from me rather than into me, and I didn't have any more issues after that. I shot 25 rounds of Rio game load and 15 rounds of Winchester Universal. Wish I was able to shoot more, but I didn't have any issues with that short sample.

If only I could figure out the recoil issue. I worked on a more forward, aggressive stances which slapped my shoulder less and allowed me to get back on target faster, but the little bit of shooting I did gave me a nice headache and freshened up the deep yellow bruise on my shoulder from the last outing.

 

[FITASC]

If you are getting cheek slap that is giving you headaches and your shoulder is getting bruised, then your stance and/or gun fit are incorrect.

 

[dakota.potts]

I'm not experience cheek slap so much, just the force of the sudden recoil pulls my body and head back quickly enough and I get a migraine after shooting enough rounds. It's a very similar experience to shooting my Mosin with the heavier loads.

 

[FITASC]

Shoot lighter loads at slower velocities - no need to beat yourself up. Shooting guns is supposed to be fun, not painful.

 

[B.L.E.]

If pushing the pump grip forward solves the failure to fire problem, most likely there is a safety that locks the firing pin if the bolt is out of battery, although most pump guns lock the slide forward until the shell fires.

I looked up the CZ 612 and I noticed that the field version of this gun only weighs 6.2 pounds. The reason break open single shot shotguns have a reputation for kicking like a mule is because most of them only weigh 5.5 to 6 lb. There's a reason most serious trap and sporting clays shotguns weigh 8.5 to 9 lb.
W.W. Greener use to claim that a gun should weigh 96 times the weight of the shot it shoots in order to be shot comfortably by the average shooter. I round that up to 100 for my personal rule of thumb.
6.2 pounds is 99.2 ounces so if you want to shoot this gun in a sporting clays situation, I would shoot one ounce loads or less.
Lightweight shotguns are for hunting, where you carry the gun all day and only shoot a dozen times or so.
The heavier shotguns are for trap or sporting clays where you shoot 100+ rounds in a row but don't carry the gun very far.

 

[dakota.potts]

My first box was 1 1/8 oz loads at 1200 FPS, and those were the ones that really beat me up. The Rios I were given are a 1 oz load at 1280 FPS. The recoil is not as bad on those, but is a little more succinct.

I'll see what I can find that's a little lighter charge, but I don't have a whole lot of stores around me for selection. I'll see what I can find and if that gives me some relief. I may just need some time on the gun to develop a stance, since it seems like it's going to require a different stance than my rifles do. My next planned outing with it is dove hunting, where I expect to shoot 75 rounds or more. In this case, would you recommend trying to find a lower velocity load, or a lighter load (maybe a 7/8 oz)?

It is a light gun for sure. It weighs less than my VZ 58, which is itself not a heavy rifle.

 

[skizzums]

I won't comment on your recoil issues relating to ammo choice, except to look up how to size yourself for a shotgun, then practice your stance. Sounds like your "length of pull" may be too short if your getting beat up on shoulder and cheek, short is good because it can be easily fixed with padding.

I have three boxes of Winchester Universal, two from a friend of mine that it would cycle or fire in his pricey semi-auto and one box from a buddy who can't even cycle it in his pump-action Winchester, odd since it's a Winchester shell. anyways, seem to work okay in my H&R pump but have only shot off maybe ten or so rounds. lots of problems with that ammo, not sure why they wouldn't just address the issues since it really tarnishes the name, shotgun ammo is always pretty reliable from just about every company, so it can't be too difficult.

 

[B.L.E.]

In this case, would you recommend trying to find a lower velocity load, or a lighter load (maybe a 7/8 oz)?

7/8 ounce loads are an absolute joy to shoot, but hardly anyone sells them for 12 gauge, and when they do, they are usually international trap loads which are loaded up to around 1400 fps, giving you back all the recoil that the light load took away.
If you reload, around 16.5 grains of 700X, Remington TGT-12 wad, and 7/8 ounce of shot in a gun club or STS hull is like shooting a 20 gauge.

 

[g.willikers]

Look for Winchester Low Noise, Low recoil in 12 gauge.
It's 7/8 loads at reasonable velocities.
It's usually plentiful and affordable and easy on the shooter.

 

[FITASC]

I'll see what I can find that's a little lighter charge, but I don't have a whole lot of stores around me for selection.

The Internet is a wonderful place to shop.

Start with some stalwarts like Graf, Gamaliel, Able's, even Academy and Cabela's have decent sales now and again. I would still look at having someone who knows what they are doing help you get the gun fitted to you- it will be money well spent.

Here's a list of clay target clubs in SC:
http://www.claytargetsonline.com/south-carolina/

You might see if one near you has a resident instructor/fitter who can help.

Also, you might want to think about reloading your own. I reload light loads for 12 and 20 and they are a joy to shoot - even in light field guns

 

[B.L.E.]

Look for Winchester Low Noise, Low recoil in 12 gauge.
It's 7/8 loads at reasonable velocities.

The Winchester AA "featherlite" shells actually have 26 grams, not 7/8 ounce of shot. 26 grams kind of splits the difference between 7/8 ounce and one ounce, very close to 15/16 ounce.
Yet at 980 fps muzzle velocity, these rounds are very pleasant to shoot, and being subsonic, aren't all that loud either.

They are also good dove ammo for people who understand that doves aren't armor plated.

This is the time of the year when all the skeet fields are full of people warming up for bird season, most of them shooting heavy high velocity field loads and missing the birds anyway, while the old pros are turning clay birds into dust mostly with 7/8 and 1 ounce loads shot at 1150 to 1200 fps on the trap field.

 

[g.willikers]

It's this stuff:
http://www.luckygunner.com/12-ga-2-3-4-low-recoil-target-7-8oz-8-winchester-aa-250-rounds
Although a bit pricier than I recall.
I usually find it at Dick's Sporting Goods stores in our area.

 

[B.L.E.]

g.willikers, I clicked on your link and the website says 7/8 ounce but the writing on the box of shells says 26 grams, which one is it?
7/8 ounce = 24.8 grams
15/16 ounce = 26.6 grams
1 ounce = 28.4 grams

I have used it and it is really pleasant to shoot, and crushes trap birds with authority even at 980 fps. Frankly, I believe supersonic muzzle velocities in shotgun ammo is highly overrated.