What's wrong with my set up?

[Bellasogno]

Attempted to site in my brand new Savage BVSS 308, and had an unpleasant result. Initial site in from the mounting set up performed by Cabellas was done at 50 yards. I was satisfied that the grouping was OK at 50 yds, even though I had what I considered a flyer or 2.

Results at 100 yds. were terrible. All over the paper, with a couple shots in a group. Certainly not what I was expecting for this rifle and the brand new Vortex Viper 6.5 -20 MIL DOT, nor the Savage.

Range officer had a go, and although 2 of his shots were close (left of bulls eye), he also had an inconsistent shot. He double checked the mounting nuts - all were tight, nothing loose. He blamed the mounting set up, and suggested the bridge on the rear mount was not optimum. He suggested a one-piece picatinny set up, and of course this bridges the breech. No prob for me, since this is for target shooting primarily, and I won't be in a hurry loading more than single rounds.

Experts, what do you think? Agree with my RO? Go back to Cabellas and ask for a pic set up? What about their charges?

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

For one, you're not exactly using match grade ammo there.

I don't know what brand those rings and bases are but I would also recommend one piece. One piece for both. Black though, not silver... do NOT buy their silver.

I don't think that's necessarily the issue though. More likely the ammo.

 

[Bellasogno]

The CBC is 168gr. 'Sniper' hollow points sold to me by my reputable shop as match grade. The rings and mounts are both Leupold STD.

Leopold silver mounts/rings no good?

 

[4runnerman]

With the gap in your shots, I have to go with 2 different issues. Please take this right. 1- cheap bullets,2- more practice is needed. Are you shooting free hand or is this off a rest?. As Brian also stated- Go with a one pc mount. As a die hard Savage fan- Check your action screws. Savage has a issue with loose action screws also. Keep rear screws 5 inch lbs tighter than front. tighten from rear to front also. Who mounted that scope for you?. Why is the front base so far over the action?. The BVSS is one very nice accurate rifle, You should be making one hole at 100 yards with ease

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I've never shot the stuff, but a little Googling around doesn't give me great hope for it.

I don't like two piece rings/bases. I don't much care what the brand is. Solid bases and Burris Signature rings would be my second choice. DNZ one piece rings AND bases is my first choice (just not the silver, their silver is awful).

It's highly unlikely that the rifle is the issue. You can try sliding a dollar bill between the barrel and stock to see if it's free-floating.

The scope is not likely to be the problem.

Something could be installed loose, I wouldn't trust Cabela's or any other big box store to do an install. I do my own and see no reason for any one not to.

Oh, yes, as mentioned by 4runnerman, what is your confirmed ability with other guns?

 

[Bart B.]

I don't think you need any type of rail unless you'll shoot at things over 600 yards away.

Have you shot sub one inch several shot groups before? If so, the ammo may well not be all that great in spite of its ever-popular marketing hyped "match" labeling.

 

[Bellasogno]

Again, mounting was done by Cabellas, screw tightness was checked at the range by RO. After shooting this target, I hung a new one, and shot my Weatherby 30-06, and had a nice tight group. Five rounds in a 1" group. With Remington Core Lokt no less. No, I'm not a pro, but I can shoot tight groups at 100 yds.

So I go back to Cabellas with my target, and ask them why they sold me this set up?

Anything else?

 

[std7mag]

I'd go with as Brian suggested, and get a one piece Weaver, or picany style mount. Helps firm up the action.

Also as a note, on your "reputable sniper type bullet" I'm going to assume it's a VLD. VLD bullets need to be loaded to your gun. Some shoot best with the bullet actually touching the lands of the rifling. Other guns prefer a certain amount of "free bore". You need to experiment with this to get the right distance off of the lands for your particular gun.

Also you have no way of knowing what kind/how much powder is in your "sniper" bullets.

If your going for a target gun, time to start handloading....

Not saying, just saying...

 

[jmr40]

I despise those mounts and refuse to use them. But if they are mounted properly they generally work. They are the most difficult type of mounts to use and it is easy to damage the scope getting them mounted. They have a habit of screws backing out over time too. But as long as everything was done properly and the screws are tight I don't think that is your problem.

I'd try a different ammo. Anyone can label their ammo as "match grade". Doesn't mean much. In my experience with PMC ammo it tends to go bang every time and give decent accuracy. Not great though.

One other thing. Many rifles do not shoot to their full potential until after 100 or so rounds have been down the tube. Savage's in particular tend to have pretty rough bores from the factory and need to be shot and cleaned a bit before they settle down.

I wouldn't get discouraged yet. I think it has potential to be a great shooter once you get things sorted out.

 

[Bart B.]

Brian, a .0043" thick dollar bill slipping between barrel and fore end ain't enough to ensure the barrel won't bounce off it when the rifle's fore end is resting atop something on a bench top. Maybe under the chamber area but not under the front half; especially at the tip.

 

[Bellasogno]

Not resting the gun on the barrel, to be clear. I may not be the sharpest bulb in the deck, but I'm also not dyslexic

I'll give her a good cleaning, and try some different ammo before taking it back to Cabellas.

 

[mete]

Great comments ! You could always make one change at a time testing each change for accuracy and you'll learn more .
My latest rifle didn't have quite a free floating barrel .A simple shim under the front of the receiver cut the groups in half. Little things can do a lot .I'll proceed with other changes and see how each will shrink the groups !

 

[Bellasogno]

The Savage that this thread is about is free floated, heavy barrel, and fluted. This is one heavy gun.

My Weatherby 30-06 that shoots 1inch groups with Remington Core Lokt at 100 yards is not free floated, and is not a heavy barrel either. And the Nikon scope isn't nearly as nice as the Savage's Vortex.

 

[badlander]

I have those mounts on my Savage 110 FP .308. It shoots tiny little groups. Never been A problem.

 

[RC20]

Keep in mind the 30-06 is an inherently y accurate round and the 308 tends to be all over the map (grin)

Good luck in resolving it. Should be a good rifle and scope, a scope swap would be an easy cross check. It doesn't happen often but occasionally a scope is bad (will leave it to the experts if it could group like that)

 

[taylorce1]

It could be a lot of things going wrong with that rifle. I don't like the mounts either but I do have rifles that use them and I doubt they are the true problem.

First thing I'd try is a different brand of ammunition, not all ammunition shoots well in every rifle. Usually stuff like Federal blue box shoots pretty well in most rifles and is fairly inexpensive. You could try as well buying some actual "Match" grade ammunition.

It could be the torque on your action screws, you could try "tuning the screws". This might be something to consider if you've taken the barreled action out of the stock recently.

It could be you need to free float the tang as well, Savage actions don't like any pressure or binding in the tang area.

Your scope might be broken, I've seen it happen before with brand new scopes. That would be the last thing I'd check, unless you have a scope known to be good lying around you can swap out quickly.

Only change one thing at a time that way you will know when you find the problem.

 

[FrankenMauser]

Although it might be a good idea to change the scope bases, they aren't the problem.

That's an ammunition, barrel, bedding, or assembly problem.
In other words... the it's the rifle.


Some advice, before you start chasing gremlins....
Finish breaking in that barrel, before you do anything else.

 

[EchoM70]

168gr Federal Gold Medal Match. Give this ammo a try, it's been a consistently accurate load in all my .308s. You can't shoot just one type of ammo and assume the gun just doesn't shoot, ammo plays a huge role in accuracy.

 

[Picher]

A few things to check...after trying other ammo:

1. Remove the action screws and, with the stock held in a vise or rest, hold the barrel and try moving it left to right. If the action moves in the stock, it's probably not well-bedded. Even stocks with bedding blocks aren't immune from that problem. (I still use a thin layer of epoxy bedding to eliminate movement.)

2. Get, or steal your friend's lipstick and coat the bottom of the action and re-install with screws tight, especially the forward screw. Remove it carefully and see if it's bearing uniformly on the stock by the areas shown in red. Nothing should be touching from a couple of inches ahead of the receiver to the muzzle.

3. The mounts aren't my favorites, but if not okay, will usually result in more horizontal groups than vertical. High-Strength Locktite in the dovetail might help.

4. Check the muzzle crown to see if it's sharp and consistent.

5. Check a clean bore to see if there's any copper buildup. If so, brush it out and shoot more slowly to prevent overheating.

6. Is the trigger lighter than 4 lbs, if not, adjust it.

7. You may want to try that scope on a rifle that shoots well and vice-versa.

(It's best to try one thing at a time, but sometimes we have difficulty getting to a range, so tend to do several before live firing.)

 

[AllenJ]

If the mounts and rings are properly tightened I don't believe they are the problem. That leaves the ammo, the scope, the rifle, and the shooter. Sorry for that last one but everyone has bad days, I know I've had my share both at the range and in the field. If it were me the first thing I would do is try a different ammo. As stated above, and I've seen this many times in person, different guns shoot different ammo different ways. I have a cousin who just got a Remington 700 heavy barrel in 308 Win. He bought 5 different brand/types of ammo and it liked 2 of them. The three brands it did not like shot a lot like your group.