What's the problem with doing a FFL transfer?

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XavierBreath

New member
Reading through some of the archived threads it struck me how many gunstores apparently don't want to make money doing transfers. They would rather potentially lose a return customer, and lose the money they could make off a transfer fee based on the belief that refusing to do a transfer will compel the customer to buy their higher priced goods.

After all, all they have to do is send out a copy of their FFL, sign for the package from UPS, fill out a 4473 (which the buyer fills out most of anyway), collect the transfer fee, and maintain record of the sale. Are they just ticked off they have a customer who knows how to shop? $25+ for less than 15 minutes of paperwork seems to be a pretty decent deal to me. Do four and you pocket $100. What's the deal?
 
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Handy

Moderator
Many shops avoid a variety of profitable behavior, like used guns.

People don't get into the gun business to become rich, and aren't necessarily the smartest entrepeneurs in existance.
 
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tyme

Administrator
If it were only $25 most places, that would be an improvement. There are some places around here cheaper than that, but a lot of larger gun stores charge $50+, or a percentage of the gun's value. It's a racket.

There's another side to that. They have to be prepared to hold the gun for three days, and they have to be prepared to deal with the gun on the off-chance that NICS denies the transfer (either legally or by mistake). Transfers are often only a few minutes of paperwork, but they can be something more.
 
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Sir William

New member
XB, I agree. I simply tired of shopping the locals and began buying from BBs, people I trust and shops online. I do buy when I attend gunshows. The big issue for me was FFLs blowing me off in the first place. I tell them exactly what I want and I do not set a price, I use a credit card and layaway when 3-4 come along at once and I do not trade or offer any conditions. The FFLs have done me no favours. I ignore their stock and find, buy and arrange for transfers. If the FFL had what I wanted, they would sell it. I figure a grumpy FFL who wants to overcharge, charge a percentage or tell me my business doen't need my business. I have one FFL that charges $15.00 and has leather to fit usually and accessories. sights, grips and throws an item in sometimes. They are few and far between these days.
 
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XavierBreath

New member
They have to be prepared to hold the gun for three days, and they have to be prepared to deal with the gun on the off-chance that NICS denies the transfer (either legally or by mistake). Transfers are often only a few minutes of paperwork, but they can be something more.
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Understood, but they should have a safe or other secure storage on the premises, and if the transfer is denied, wouldn't the gun go back to the seller at the buyer's cost? If the buyer is a butthead and refuses to pay return shipping, the seller can just take it out of his payment. The transfer agent loses nothing.
On top of that, if they ordered you the gun, they would be taking the risk. By facilitating a transfer, they have no risk.
 
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toivo

New member
Some dealers think that by doing transfers they're helping the competition. They'd rather have you buy the gun from them. I've had people try to pitch that to me: "We don't do transfers. What're you buying? I can get you one of those."
 
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Eghad

New member
go to gun broker and do a search for FFL holders willing to do a transfer. I found one that does it for $10.00 for each weapon and I dont have to pay any sales tax except for the sales tax that is included in the transfer fee.......
 
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Shorts

New member
Some dealers think that by doing transfers they're helping the competition. They'd rather have you buy the gun from them. I've had people try to pitch that to me: "We don't do transfers. What're you buying? I can get you one of those."
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And my response to that is always, "Ok, I want a ____, can you get it for the same price of ____?" If yes, then we do it. If no, then I go somewhere else.
 
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jefnvk

New member
the seller can just take it out of his payment
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Why should he pay for the buyer's screwup? He did his part, he got the gun where it needed to go for the agreed upon price.

One thing I have found. Dealers don't like it when people barrel into their store, proclaiming how they got an awesome deal on a gun on an auction or online dealer, well below what they see it for in this store, and demand the dealer do a transfer. I have been told by a few dealers they will refuse to do a transfer for those people. The buyer seems to think that the dealer has to do the transfer because they are a gun dealer, and the dealers just don't like that.
 
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butch50

New member
I do my transfers at a local gunshop that I buy ammo and the occasional gun from. I am sure he would do it anyway, but knowing that I am a repeat customer of more years than either of us cares to remember, does seem to make it go more smoothly. He charges $25 which I think is fair enough as a market rate, and I do want him to remain in business.
 
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BillCA

New member
The problem is that dealer may make between $50 and $100 on a gun he sells and if you're buying it from a distributor for $30 over your FFL's cost the ONLY money he really makes is the charge for his FFL use ($10, $25, 10%, etc). The fee for registration, paperwork, etc is set by our state (CA) so that its uniform and "reasonable".

So he makes $25 selling you a gun you ordered. But he could have made $100 on that same gun sold through his shop. I think this is what rankles shop keepers the most -- people who come in, oogle & fondle that SW1911SC then come back the next day to order one from the distributor instead of buying the one in the display case.

I was at a shop today and a customer spent 10 minutes fondling a NIB Browning High Power. Then he inquired about ordering the same gun from a distributor he knows saying it was 40% cheaper. When asked why he didn't want the example in the case he had the cojones to say he didn't want a gun who's action had been manipulated dozens of times! :confused:
 
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XavierBreath

New member
The problem is that dealer may make between $50 and $100 on a gun he sells and if you're buying it from a distributor for $30 over your FFL's cost the ONLY money he really makes is the charge for his FFL use ($10, $25, 10%, etc). The fee for registration, paperwork, etc is set by our state (CA) so that its uniform and "reasonable".
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Dealer sells it ----------------$100 in his pocket
Dealer transfers it -------------$25 in his pocket
Dealer refuses to transfer gun and buyer leaves---------$0 in his pocket

I don't get it. I've made a few bad business decisions in my life, but turning down money for very little work and keeping a customer or gaining a new customer is not one of them!
I don't have any problems making a transfer, although in the past I have heard this:
"Got any Colts?"
Howabout these Kimbers?"
No, I just want a Colt."
"Colt's outa bidness."
"OK"
Two days later--------
"I found a Colt, can you do a transfer?"
"Whatdahell you trying to do? Run me outa bidness? Hellnaw I can't do you no transfer you gungrabbing commie! You need to support the little man! Howabout a Kimber?"
Buyer walks out of store never to return believing the owner has mental problems.


I figure I'm just ignorant, not having a FFL, so from the folks who do, what's the deal?
 
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GunsnRovers

New member
I can understand shops not wanting to transfer pistols they sell on their shelves, however I agree it's just silly not to facilitate other transfers. Easy quick money and you get the buyer in your shop.

The dream of every small business owner should be to improve store traffic. Anything to get people with money into your shop to try to sell them something. Even if their reason is only to spend $25 on a transfer with you, you have the guy in front of you and have the opportunity to make a larger % profit margin on cleaning supplies, ammunition, etc. That opportunity is why people pay money for advertising, lost leaders, etc. Unless you get foot traffic, your store is useless. Oh well.

As was said, not all business owners are smart business people.
 
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629 shooter

New member
If it were only $25 most places, that would be an improvement. There are some places around here cheaper than that, but a lot of larger gun stores charge $50+, or a percentage of the gun's value. It's a racket.

Luckily my somewhat "local" dealer is more than willing to perform FFL transfers and for a very nominal fee. He charges a dollar to ship off his FFL form and when the gun arrives a mere $10 to complete the transfer. He does a lot of on-line business and even encouraged me to get with him if I see something that I want on-line and need a FFL dealer to complete the transfer. It would seem that he is more than fair in this day and age.
 
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bclark1

New member
i drive to a guy that's a good half hour away if there's no traffic, even though there are many much closer, because i think the $20 flat fee is fair and he's a really nice guy, and quick with the turnaround - comparatively, i had an FFL decide to leave town without setting up anything to hold packages, just closed up shop and my gun got to make a return trip and took me like a month to get once. but yes, it is kind of silly. if stores don't want you buying elsewhere, maybe they'd price more competetively. i support local business whenever possible, but when there's more than a $50 price difference, coupled with sales taxes that you can avoid by buying online, it's pure madness to pay the difference. generally that means high-volume rifles and shotguns are the only things you can get a good deal on in the retail environment. i'd estimate i've saved about $800 on 6 guns by buying them through an FFL versus paying retail, including shipping and transfer fees.
 
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dolanp

New member
I give my local folks a chance to price match, and they are very reasonable on their prices. When their price + tax is about as much as online + shipping + fees then I will support the local dealer. If not they are more than happy to transfer for me at $15.
 
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PSE

Moderator
i just had my first dealer refuse to send a ffl copy for shipment of a pistol i sold on gunbroker. i guess he thought id ship it on his word that hes an ffl. i have the MO from the buyer already but the ffl isnt cooperating.
 
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FLRich

New member
I just visited a dealer today and obviously they don't like to deal with transfers. Up on the wall in writing the transfers are $50 or 10% of the cost of the gun WHICHEVER IS GREATER!!! OK so your telling me you want me to go out find what I want, pay for it first then pay you $25 for a copy that I mail out FOR YOU and then pay you another $25 when I come to pick up the gun ?? No holding since I got a CCW permit so the 3 day waiting period does not apply. That is more than high it sounds to me it's more of what we called "Murphing" in sales. Someone asks you how much for xyz and you reply 10x as much as what it is worth retail, the customer get's so insulted that they just walk out...exactly what you wanted.

There are 3 different guns that have caught my eye in Shotgun news and I just got a bit of OT Pay that came in. One dealer 35 miles away said he will do them for $15, this other one is 10 miles away... Humm...$150 or $45 ?? or even $15 or $50 ?? Who will get the return business...

I have found that many FFL's were pressured into a regular storefront when they were originally weekend warriors (gunshows). They are only interested in gun shows and hanging with their buddies during their ATF hours.. I mean store hours.

Rich
 
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