What's good BP shooting equipment ?

[Fred Clepper]

I am getting back into BP shooting after a 30 year layoff.
For my Ruger Old Army, I used a metal powder flask with a measuring spout. I also tried an inline capper but am not sure that the thing worked very well. I always used Pyrodex P with the ball pressed onto the powder and Crisco over the ball. Now, I see all kinds of patchind being used under the ball without grease on top of the ball?
For my flintlock Hawken, I used a metal powder flask with a large spout for the main charge and a smaller flask for priming. and patched the .50 ball.
I personally like the Historical aspect of BP shooting and dislike some of the new devices (sabots, plastic anythings and inline "muzzle loaders") that are being offered today!
I need some recommendations on what to buy from you old time charcoal burners!

Thanks...

 

[Remington kid]

Fred, It's all just a matter of preferance and that's all it is. Just recently I went back to the old simplicity when it comes to the C&B revolvers...
Powder, balls and lube on top of the ball. I have used wonder wads and ball, wonder wads and ball and lube on top, powder, wads and lube on top of the wad and then a ball ( seemed to be the cleanest method for the bore) I have used the pill over the powder and then the ball, the powder, ball and pill over the ball. Some guy's use powder and ball and no lube or wad...I'm not that brave!...well , I think you get my drift They all work, just pick what you like best and what your Revolver likes the best but keep safety and chain fires on your mind while working it out.
Some people feel that if you don't have to pinch the caps to keep them on you have the wrong caps and I don't agree at all and have lost to many caps to follow that train of thought. I like my caps to fit like a glove without falling off until they have been shot. Again, just a matter of what you and your Revolver like the best.
I also like Goex BP but it's getting harder and harder to get around here and shipping it in is a little costly to me. Now I'm useing Pyrodex "P" and most people would not know that it wasn't black powder if I didn't tell them. It is just a little more powerful even though they say it should be loaded the same as Goex 3f volume for volume.
If you remove the spring at the end of your in-line capper and round the inside edge and then replace the spring the capper will work. I just don't like cappers and place the cap on the nipple with my fingers and then shove it on down on the nipple with a 3/8" x 6" doll rod with a piece of rounded leather glued to the end.
Hope this helps and that I'm not confusing you. I'm sure others will jump in also. Going back to basics is great for me but may not be to the likeing for others Mike

 

[Low Key]

Fred,
I agree with RK, it's really a matter of what you prefer. RK helped get me started with a lot of good info, but my loading setup is just a bit different from his. I load powder, dry vegetable fiber wad (bought from Cabelas), then a lube pill (which is basically lard, olive oil, and beeswax melted together and cut out in 45 caliber "pills") and then a .454 ball on top. It works for me, but one doesn't have to go that route if you don't want to. It's what works for me and I actually think its fun working up some lube for my pistols.

I have an inline capper, but I don't use it because it tosses more caps on the ground than it actually gets on the cones on my gun. Like RK I just use my fingers to place the caps and then push them down firm with a rod. My gun is set up for # 10 caps but I have used # 11 Remingtons, which I had to pinch a little to keep them on, didn't bother me but I decided that I wanted a better fit so I went to CCI #11 which I understand are about the same size as a Remington # 10. The CCI # 11 fit right on my cylinders without me having to pinch them at all and that's good for me.

I have used Goex, but that is impossible to find around here now and I don't want to pay the hazmat fee to order it, so I'm using pyrodex p now. I have also used hodgedons 777 with no complaints except that it's expensive.

Shooting c&b guns is just like anything else, you can make it as simple or as complicated as you like. There are a lot of knowledgable people on this forum, so if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Fred Clepper]

Thanks for the opinions guys! I am also looking for the simple approach as I think the old timers did the same.
I have just gotten into this forum about a week ago and really enjoy the information passed here. It seems like a great bunch of people with a love for history.
I guess I'll buy a nice metal powder flask with some extra spouts so I can throw different loads.
How do you guys carry the caps in your bags? Do you keep them in the original cans?
I always used Crisco in front of the balls when I lived up north but here in FL it gets awful hot and I am sure that the Crisco will run in the sun. I have seen a mixture posted using bees wax, parafine and beef tallow and wonder if it is worth the effort.
I often wondered how a man on horesback could carry all of the stuff needed to reload and keep shooting a C&B revolver!

 

[Remington kid]

Talking about the old timers carrying all the stuff with them reminds me of a flyer that Mec posted about a week ago on the other site...It was the instructions issued with the Colt revolvers and don't quote me but it goes something like this....
(1)Fill cylinder with powder leaving enough room on top for a ball
(2) the use of a patch or wad is not recomended
(3) Place cap on cone
(4) place hammer on safety notch
This is just a rough idea of what it said but it's interesting that it never mentioned mentioned lube or grease over the ball and in fact discouraged using a wad.
Mec also stated that he had heard that the idea of useing grese or lube came along later. Maybe a few chain fires woke someone up to that idea
If I can find that post by Mec I'll give you the link.
As for the caps I buy a couple hunded at a time and place them in a small tin box that held some kind of breath mints (I don't need the mints, my breath always smells great! Just like BP ) Anyway, I also have a leather cap pouch that came from Cabelas along with a cylinder pouch. I carry and extra loaded cylinder and extra caps when I'm in the woods for the day.These all go right on a gun belt.
A good lube for your area would be one part Crisco and two parts bees wax with a touch of licquid soap melted in with it.This is just a place to start and you can ad wax or crisco until you get what you like. Just write down what your mix is so you can mix it again when needed.
As for buying different spouts for your flask that's one way of doing it but another way is to buy an adjustable powder measurer with the small funnel on it that levels off the powder and makes pouring in the cylinder really easy.
To many times when your working up a load or just shooting at the range you want to try a few grains less or a few more. and with the spouts your limited on that.
A possiables bag is what you want to carry for all the above if your going to be in the woods for a few days . Hope this helps, Mike

 

[Steve499]

Good to have you on here, Fred. When I go to the range, I carry all my stuff in an old pistol range box which holds about 5 pistols upright and has a tray below for all the rest of the junk. Mine weighs about 50 pounds! When I'm walking around or actually hunting, I have an accessory pouch on my gunbelt. I ordered some vinyl quick load tubes from Dixie Gun Works which hold a pre-measured powder charge and a ball on top which seals the tube's open end. My pouch has two compartments, one holds about 20 of the loaded tubes. The other side holds a tin of lube pills and a a box of caps. The partition between the two compartments is notched at the back to allow an in-line capper and a "smearing" stick to lay along the back side. I also have a little piece of wire from my wire welder in there to use as a nipple pick. There's enough room to carry a nipple wrench but I never have done that. The capper I have required some modifications before it would work on the Remington like Remington Kid said before.

I find I can reload in the field quite well. I don't use any wads, just powder, ball with lube over the ball. I like the ability to reload only one or two chambers instead of carrying a spare loaded cylinder like some of the folks on here do. I suppose it's dependent on what you do. I rabbit hunt with mine and only six extra shots don't get it! The loaded tubes work so much better than my old way of carrying a powder flask and loose balls in some kind of possibles bag. If I am going SHOOTING, I take my range box. All the other applications have been (so far ) covered by what I carry on the belt.

I have a picture but it won't attach right now.

Steve

 

[Fred Clepper]

Interesting posts guys!
I like the powder/ball and goop approach myself. I think isolating any lube from rhe powder is always good and with the lube in front of the ball, the barrel gets lubed before the ball hits the lands. I think most of the lube goes out the barrel. Although, I always did have dirty hands after a lot of shooting!

I like the idea of using a smear stick instead of the fingers!

RKs wooden rod with leather tip to seat caps is a real good idea!
This gives me a good idea for an all-in-one tool to seat caps, clean the nipples and smear the grease (a Kappernipplegreaser)! Sounds German!

How about cleaning? Some of the guys that I used to shoot with had a bucket of diesel fuel and they would remove the grips and drop the gun into the oil over night and then the next day would wipe down the gun and run a few patches through the barrel to clean it!

I always used hot soapy water followed by WD-40

Keep em coming! I like this stuff!

 

[Low Key]

Hot soapy water followed by WD-40 is good. You can also use windex, let it sit for a few minutes then scrub it down good, then spray with WD-40, wipe dry or blow out with a compressor, then lube everything back up with a natural lube.

 

[Remington kid]

Yep, Low Key got it. I quit messing with hot soapie water years ago. No reason for it. The windex or any window cleaner with amonia will desolve oall the powder and residue withoutall the fuss.
If I only shoot a few cylinders I don't strip down the revolver to clean the innerds. On the Remington I just remove the cylinder, loading ram and cylinder pin. Spray it down with windex and let it sit before scubbing with a tooth brush and use a wire brush on barrel and cylinders and dry patches until spotless. Use pipe cleaners toclean out and dry the nipples. Then I spray it all down with WD-40 let it sit for a few minutes, blow it all out with a compressor and dry it all real well and wipe out the nipples again with pipe cleaners and I'm ready to go. I always re-lube the bore and the cylinder pins or arbor . It takes me about 10 minutes.
If I shot a lot then I strip it down , place all the parts in a 2" deep tray and soak it all and scrub the works and and go through the same process as a bove but clean it all. In other words no matter what method or miracle cleaner you use it will work, just "Getter done!"

 

[Steve499]

As far as cleaning goes, I jump around and do it first one way and then another, depending on how much time I want to put into it. I use rubbing alcohol a lot, it melts the fouling well and evaporates rapidly.

I took a couple of pictures the other day to show what I carry on my belt. This computer wouldn't let me attach them, now it will .....Go figure!

Steve

 

[Fred Clepper]

Steve,

Thanks for the post! Nice pictures! Well, I must make up some kind of outfit for my Rem 58. I like your belt rig and I need to get a holster too! Did you make them yourself?

I just got a nice catalog from Cabelas and their prices look good!

It's interesting that a lot of you guys use Windex to clean up BP guns! I work on surplus military rifles and mix a concoction of Ammonia, white Vinegar and water to electrically clean the bores of my old guns. The solution de-plates the copper from the bore and puts it on the electrode.

I think I'll try a solution of Ammonia, Water and Alcohol when I shoot my 58. The alcohol will dry out the bore quicker! WD-40 is good to displace water and help prevent rusting!

 

[Steve499]

Fred, I did make my rig. I have about $16.00 in the whole thing including dye, and $10.00 of that was for a belt blank. I guess you could call me an alcoholic because in addition to cleaning with it, I use alcohol in the fitting of a holster to the gun I'm making it for. It dries faster than water and allows you to form the leather so it fits like a glove.

Steve

 

[tinker2]

Steve499

Nice job, looks good to me, I will try the “alcohol in the fitting
of a holster to the gun”

I, for one, would be interested in any write up on your holster
and leather accessories making that you would care to share.



Tinker2 lives in a rust tub.

 

[Steve499]

Well, Tink, I'm not sure there's much to tell. I just absolutely hate to sew. I do it because I am too cheap to pay for the leather stuff I want and I can adapt whatever I'm making to my own preferences.
Finding a source for leather of holster quality can be problematic when you are a skinflint.I buy scrap stuff that's marked down at a leather shop in Springfield, Mo. You have to go through the pile but can usually find pieces large enough for a couple of holsters for 7 or 8 dollars.
I don't use patterns. I'm not against them, just never have had one. I eyeball the piece of leather to try to miss the flaws, of which there are always several, and figure out where I can remove excess leather to get it out of my way. Then I wet the leather with rubbing alcohol until it's saturated. A large cookie sheet holds the overflow and keeps the leather in the alcohol. Then I fold the holster-to-be over the gun I'm making it for and clamp the open edge where the seam will eventually go. I have some rubber jawed spring clamps I use there. Once it is wrapped around, the top contour and the length can be cut. I have some deer antler tines which are rounded off that I use to rub the outside of the holster to make the wet leather conform to the gun. I use a pattern tracer, one of those little spiky wheel things on a handle, to mark the line of the seam. It leaves a line of indentations behind which I use to mark the holes I make with an awl. I don't like to punch the holes too close together which means I put a hole about every fourth dent. I use a regular old darning needle and waxed nylon thread, the kind called artificial sinew in some ads, and sew it up. I tried one of the leather sewing things which has a spool in the handle and couldn't keep even tension on the stitches so I don't use it any more. I usually start sewing in the middle of the seam, go to one end, and fill the skipped stitch on the way back past the center to the other end and back where I tie off the two ends and burn them level on the back where it won't show. If you are careful with your awl, the seam will look like it was machine stitched since the holes are evenly spaced by the pattern tracer.
I wet the holster with alcohol again after it's finished,work it down around the gun again with the antler tines and let it dry with the gun in there. One thing you can do at this stage is to pinch up a ridge along the folded side to make a sight track if the holster is for one of those tall sighted Remingtons.The channel will stay in there when the holster dries and will keep the front sight from scoring and eventually cutting through to the outside.I dye, polish and then apply neat's (neet's?) foot oil.
I do not pretend to be any kind of authority about this stuff. I don't have leather working tools except for those I've made when I needed something more than I had. Believe me, if I can do it, anyone can. Cheaply!

Steve

 

[Fred Clepper]

Steve,

Good job with the instructions! I know I can do the thing if I can find some leather around here. I like the looks of your holster and belt pouch! you did a nice job on them! I have done some silver work and have cut some tools from hard nails and broken dentist tools. I think leather tooling is done in much the same way.

I had thought of drilling 4 or 6 holes in a piece of steel and driving brads through the holes to form spikes for the stitching holes. This way, when you tap the tool, there would be 4 or 6 nice holes for the thread. By walking the tool up along the intended seam, tapping it each time the holes would spaced in a uniform manner. However, the star wheel may be easier since you don't need to build it.

Thanks for the tips...

 

[Steve499]

Fred, I made a 4 hole punch. I thought I invented it until I saw one at that leather shop I mentioned. I have a forge so I can make simple tools out of old, high carbon metal. My punch was a horseshoer's rasp in it's former life but I don't see why you couldn't make one from a wood spade bit. Grind off the center point so the bit is straight across, grind the straight edge to a sharp edge with an even bevel coming from both sides, then file notches in the edge deep enough to leave teeth long enough to reach through normal leather. I also filed a round bevel on the flat area between the teeth on mine so it leaves a depression between the holes for the thread to lay in. If you are careful when you space the teeth and get them even, you can walk one like that down a line by using the last hole in the 4 holes you just punched to put the first tooth into for the next holes you make. It works well for straight seams, makes the awl work much faster.
I haven't ever done any leather tooling, by the time I get something made I'm tired of fooling with it.

Steve

 

[Fred Clepper]

Steve,

I located a leathercraft shop in the yellow pages and they have Tandy leather products there. In fact, the shop is within 100 yards of my favorite gun shop! I drove over there this morning and got the latest Tandy catalog.

Next, I went to the gun shop where I got my Remington New Army last week. I traded my HK-91 clone for an old CVA St. Louis Hawken .50 Cal and a Savage made British MK4 no. 1 .303 Cal. Today is my birthday and I had quite a day!

I may buy some leather at the Tandy place and free hand a possables bag. They want about $40 for a period holster kit for the .44. I am not sure I want to spend the money. There is also a book with holster patterns in it that I could use and it only costs about $15.

I suppose I could just lay the gun down and draw around it to get an idea of the shape and then work out the folds etc. I kinda like the rawhide lacing but I suppose in the 1800s they used twine to stitch them up.

Well, you guys sure got me fired up on this BP stuff! I'll probably end up being a 71 year old buck skinner. I might even get a hock to throw!