Whatever happened to .45 Super?

Neal in GA

New member
There was a lot of ink spilled about this cartridge when introduced, and it seemed to show a lot of promise, but it's faded into oblivion as far as I know. Any particular reason? To a lesser extent, what about .400 corbon as well?
 

Nightcrawler

New member
Triton still chambers their .450SMC, which is performance wise the same as .45 Super.

Buffalo Bore chambers .45 Super. http://www.buffalobore.com

I've fired some .450SMC through my CZ-97B (w/ 22# recoil spring). It's fun stuff. Doesn't recoil nearly as bad as some people suggested, and it packs a lot of oomph (230gr @ 1150fps).

I don't know that it'll ever be terribly popular. It's not particularly hard on modern guns with heavy recoil springs, but a lot of people feel it's too much for self defense* and have big wheelguns for hunting.

The guns that Triton says it can use with a heavy recoil spring are the Glock 21, most new 1911s, Sig P220s, and the USP-45 can fire it without modification. The heavy recoil spring is just to prevent slide battering over time, I think. The CZ-97B, in my experience, handles it well with the 22# spring.

Triton doesn't recommend it be used in alloy framed guns (so they told me), and thusly don't recommend it for the Ruger P90. But the Sig P220 is an alloy gun, I think, and either way, the Ruger is one of the strongest .45s on the market.

Dan Wesson's Model 460 revolver can handle it with ease. Said revolver can also handle .460 Rowland and .45 Win Mag, so you know it's got the strength.

*I personally don't believe in "too much" when your life is at stake. As much power as you can practically control is best, as far as I'm concerned.
 

Redneck2

New member
You could try...

http://www.realguns.com

Joe has article on converting a "normal" 1911 to 45 Super for $8

I think the 45 acp vs 45 Super is in the same category as bumping up a 45 LC to the .44 Mag range. The barrels are modern steel and take more pressure than older loadings.

A lot of people I talk to think a regular 45 acp is way big. I had thought about making one up (converting the spring on my Springfield), but it seems a little extreme for normal CCW and too small for deer (not legal here). I'd think it'd be a great pin gun and maybe silhouettes.

Do a search on 45 Super here and you should be able to find some info
 

WESHOOT2

New member
"HOBBY CARTRIDGES"

Kinda 'heavy' for most platforms.
400 C-B kinda hassle to load, and for light bullets only.

As for 44 Mag vs 45 Colt, based on SPECIFIC launch platform, not even close (and I've tried).
.452" 360g LFN @ 1170fps..........know what I mean?
 

Bud Helms

Senior Member
I sorta thought it was put to rest by the .460 Rowland. If you have more than one .45 ACP pistol laying around and one has been upgraded to the .45 super, it'd be a good idea to not swap ammo the wrong way. :eek: The .460 Rowland eliminates that problem. Although, I probably shouldn't say eliminate.
 

Nightcrawler

New member
Thing about the Rowland cartridge is, it's a permanent modification to your gun and no large factory makes the ammo. I mean, if you run out of .45 Super, you still can fire .45ACP. Run out of .460 Rowland, you have a paperweight. This is, of course, if you don't reload (like me), but that brass is only going to last so long.

Besides, the only upgrade necessary to .45 Super (in a modern gun) is a heavy recoil and hammer spring (a notable exception being the USP45).
 

MarineTech

New member
Have to disagree with you there Nightcrawler. The .460 Rowland conversions for the 1911 are a drop in unit. You can always go back to the original barrel and spring. Also, in revolvers, you can still fire .45 ACP the same as you can fire 38SPL in a 357 Magnum. Dan Wesson makes the 7460 revolver that takes .45 ACP, .45 Super, .45 Win Mag, and .460 Rowland.

The only external difference between the casings for .460 Rowland and .45 ACP is that the .460 is 1/10th of an inch longer.
 

agtman

Moderator
"Whatever happened to the .45 Super?"


Gee, it musta gone flying off all the same gunshop shelves that the .40 Super, .450 SMC, .400 Corbon and .38 Casull did. :rolleyes:

These calibers merely attempt to duplicate or exceed high-end 10mm Auto-type ballistics on a 1911-frame (via a barrel swap and a stronger spring).

Probably great fun play to around with, if you've got the time and money to invest ... :)
 

Nightcrawler

New member
Some of the 10mm loads seen today seem to be on the mild side, though, you know? Cor-Bon's 165gr personal defense load propells the bullet to 1250fps; the exact same velocity as their .45ACP +P 165gr load. I know the 10mm can do more than that, but it seems to have gotten watered down.

I stand corrected on the .460 Rowland conversion, too.
 

SIGarmed

New member
I was recently looking at buying a Springfield loaded model six inch barreled 1911 V-16.
The Texas ammo .45 Super would really shine especially the .45 Super express that they make just for a six inch barrel.
I would only want this caliber if I had a .45 with a six inch barrel.
Texas Ammo advertises their 230 slugs at 1200 fps at the muzzle through a six inch barrel. Thats not to shaby IMHO.
 

CastleBravo

New member
.45 Super was always meant to be a hobby catridge, not mainstream, and it more or less stayed there.

Cor-Bon intentionally tones down their self-defense ammo in 10mm Auto a bit, since according to Terry Murbach at Cor-Bon they sell a fair amount of it to LEOs that don't want 100% insane-o-matic loads. They also sell the hottest 10mm factory ammo going in the 180gr and 200gr hunting loads.

Then there is always Pro-Load, Georgia Arms, Texas Ammunition Company (originator of .45 Super), Triton, Winchester, etc., etc. to choose from for hot 10mm... oh, I'm starving for hot ammo, I don't know what to do... :D

The close reader will also note that Cor-Bon's .45 ACP and .400 Cor-Bon ballistics are for 5" test barrels, while their 10mm ballistics are only for 4.6" barrels. Thus the near-parity of those loads to 10mm is an illusion, especially if you compare them to Cor-Bon's own Hell Bent for Leather hunting ammo that goes up to 696 ft-lbs from a 4.6" barrel.

http://www.corbon.com/ammo.html

.45 Super ballistics were never that special anyway. TAC's 230gr .45 Super Express cranks out about 735 ft-lbs from a 6" V-16 barrel. Cor-Bon's 180gr JSP gives you just under 700 ft-lbs from a mere 4.6" barrel and 800+ from a 6" barrel. Subtract for porting and... same difference. Same sectional density, too. .45 Super gives you an extra five hundredths of an inch of diameter... and less margin for safety (think thickness of barrel/chamber walls).
 

Nightcrawler

New member
I thought long and hard about the G20. Problem is, full sized Glocks don't tend to fit the hand well, so I decided on a CZ-97B in .45ACP.

A gun in .45 AND 10mm? I'd have never considered getting autos in two calibers before. You guys are a bad influence.

I still need to get a revolver, though, but who knows.
 

krept

New member
Maybe it's a kneejerk reaction but I did not like what I read about the antics of Texas Ammo re: .45 Super (royalty BS) against Triton.

450 SMC POPS. I love this cartridge. The recoil was not even close to being bad, sure it was there, but very manageable. I truly hope that this one stays around, should make a fantastic carry load for the woods if you don't have a 10 or Magnum.

.40 Super sounds like great fun too.
 

agtman

Moderator
The nuclear option ....


Nightcrawler: there's no question that some factory 10mm Auto loads are really watered-down 40-wannabes (or "FBI-Lite" loads).

However, others offer 10mm ammo loaded at or near its full-strength levels - what I call "original theory" 10mm.

Winchester's 10mm/175gn STHP is one such load. As mentioned, CorBon's stuff is another. ProLoad, Georgia Arms, and Texas Ammo also offer pretty hot stuff.

In TA's case they sell 4 hot 10mm loads:

135gn Nosler HP @ 1450fps/630ft-lbs;

165gn Sierra HP @ 1350fps/668ft-lbs;

200gn Hornady XTP/HP @ 1250fps/694ft-lbs;

200gn Hornady FMJ-FP @ 1250fps/694ft-lbs.

Note that the 200gn loads exceed the original Norma specs. When I placed my first order for the TA 10mm/200gn loads, the guy that runs it told my dealer he wanted to market 10mm ammo "loaded to its full potential."

Just what the 10mm's "full potential" really is, is probably up to reloaders. Over on GT's 10Ring, a frequent contributor and experienced handloader named MCNETT has experimented extensively with nuclear level 10mm loads, shooting these thru his Glock 20 and 29 without adverse effect, apparently. His 10mm loads are WAY past original-theory levels, which says a lot about just how far you can safely push this cartridge. These loads include a Rainier 220gn bullet. (MCNETT has published his 10mm data and detailed comments often enough that you might want to do a Search under his name on the 10Ring and see what I'm talking about).

The Glock 20's stock barrel is 4.6", but if you get the 6" factory "hunting" barrel, or an aftermarket barrel from KKM or Fed. Arms of the same length, you can really pump-up the ft-lbs on these upper-end 10mm loads.

It's true that the Glock 20's (or 29's) grip isn't for everyone. You ought to try shooting it some, if possible, before writing it off.

Also, realize that the 10mm Glocks give you 3-guns-in-1 because of their amenability to barrel-swapping, using aftermarket barrels in .357 Sig or .40S&W from, again, KKM or F. A.

HTH. :)


:cool:
 

OutLaw

New member
I guess with all the calibers to choose from,It hasn't picked up(Yet?).Maybe it will pick up someday,Maybe not.
 

Rocklobster

New member
Actually the .460 Rowland case is 1/16" longer, mainly just to keep folks from chambering it in a standard .45 ACP gun and ending up with a handful and faceful of shrapnel.

Oh, and .40 Super not only attempts to outperform 10mm, it does so quite effectively, with less recoil and stress on the firearm.
 
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