What would you do in this situation?

[TRex99]

Here's the story:
Late season elk hunt. I'm out with another guy. We're driving up a road, when two bulls, a 6x6 and a spike, and two cows are spotted out the drivers side, heading across the road. We stop quickly and grab our rifles. My hunting partner gets off two shots, which he apparently missed since no animals fell, before I get off one. My first shot was at the big bull, which I knew missed because I was a split second too late before he got across the road. I chambered another round and took a shot at the spike, but wasn't sure if I hit him or not since he was across the road by then. I took off after the big bull up a hillside, and spotted him near the top and shot, which I was sure hit from how he reared up. I ran up to the spot, found blood and started tracking. I followed the trail for about two hours, before I lost it. The blood just disappeared. The trail made a big loop, nearly depositing me back the bottom of the road we were on. So I hiked it up the road, back to my partners truck. He was nowhere to be found. I walked around a bit, and found a blood trail in the snow. I followed it right to the spike, which stood up quickly upon seeing/hearing me and seemed prepared to bolt. I dispatched him immediately. I tagged the animal and set about the required business after the kill. Of course my assumption was that I had wounded him with my earlier shot.
My partner returned about an hour later and stated that he was also trailing the big bull behind me but had picked up the trail by the road, sure he had hit him with his shots and followed it to the spot where I thought I hit him up the hill, which I marked with my hat, and then on to where the trail was lost. He then contended that he also shot at the spike, and I should have discussed it with him before I tagged it. He was pretty upset about it, thinking he had a right to the animal. I disagreed on several points: one, if he thought he hit the big bull first, why did he shoot at the spike; two, there was no way to determine whether he actually did shoot at and hit the spike; and three, I found the blood trail and ultimately killed the animal.
Did I handle the situation correctly? What would you do?

 

[KenL]

Sounds like you both threw a lot of lead around.

I'm not sure where to begin. Several issues jump out at me in this cluster... You and your partner didn't communicate expectations before you saw any elk, then you both shot at multiple animals, then you don't talk about who is tracking what animal.

The good thing in my mind is that one wounded animal was harvested. The bad thing was that one was not.

How I would have handled it, given how it played out, was since one bull was tagged by you, both of you should have gone back to where you last saw blood on the big bull and started working as a team to recover that animal. Since you've already tagged a bull, the other one gets your partner's tag.

 

[big al hunter]

Around here it is law that you must tag it before field dressing. Our camp has an unwritten rule, if you help pack it and butcher (either $ or labor) it gets split evenly. We have had a few elk that had multiple people shooting at. We never argue about it, the last bullet in tags it.

Your situation, in my mind you did the right thing. If it is the meat your friend is upset about, share some. Putting your tag on it means the fun is over and the work starts. Given the option I will keep hunting. If I put the final bullet in it, and the original shooter gave up, it should be my tag.

 

[tahunua001]

sounds like a you need a new hunting buddy. I've been in situations where numerous guys all ended up blasting at the same animals. I've never had anyone complain or argue over somebody tagging a kill.

you want to know who dunit? dig around and find out what bullet ended it. oh wait, that's right, you made the kill shot, it's your elk.

 

[taylorce1]

First off I wouldn't want to hunt with either of you. I don't know where you are hunting but here in Colorado you must be 50' off the centerline of any maintained road. From your description neither you or your buddy got very far off the road before shots were taken.

Second you knew two animals were hit, yet you only recovered one. This does happen from time to time, but the part that makes me mad is the lack of the attempt to look for the second bull. If you know anything about a wounded animal you don't push them, you give them time to laydown and stiffen up. Pursuing a wounded animal immediately is almost surely to loose you that animal.

Third, whoever fires the last bullet that finishes off the animal that is who tags it. However with two bulls hit I'd say you both punched your tags. If your hunting in a group you had better be prepared to share the spoils, it is just the proper thing to do.

What you should be doing is going over to your buddies house in the morning, telling him to grab his boots and go look for that second bull. If you don't make an honest effort to find that second bull, you and your buddy are pretty crappy hunters at best. Not someone I'd want to spend time afield with.

 

[.284]

Chinese fire drill

Sounds like you had a lot going on and sometimes "stuff" happens. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt as far the legal aspect........none of us were with you and thus are speculating.

As to the original question, bottom line your animal to tag.

 

[TRex99]

A couple of additional details that I left out:
I am aware that shooting from or near a road is generally prohibited and/or frowned upon; however, we were on an extremely primitive road in a very remote area. I could see well past the target and believed there was no danger in taking the shot. I doubt most hunters would have passed on the opportunity.

Second, I did offer to go back out and look for the other bull. However, I left it up to my partner because it was now his bull. He did not want to go back out and I did not want to go alone as it was getting late in the day.

 

[AllenJ]

The biggest thing I take from this story, without pushing my values onto you, is that your partner is kind of a jerk. He is trying to lay claim to something that is clearly not his and in doing so is wrecking what should be the best time of the entire hunt. Good hunting partners are hard to come by and I think your search for one has not ended.

Then I read this.....

Second, I did offer to go back out and look for the other bull. However, I left it up to my partner because it was now his bull. He did not want to go back out and I did not want to go alone as it was getting late in the day.

.....and now I know I'm right, find a new hunting partner.

 

[tahunua001]

alright I am seeing a few things wrong with this thread.
1. taylorace. you are decrying trex for using methods that are illegal in your state. that is the most idiotic thing I have heard of, if it is legal, there are normally provisions to ensure that it remains a safe practice.
2. sometimes game gets away, OP said that both hunters were following the bull and both lost the trail, this is often a sign that a wound was superficial and has closed. as much as I hate getting game that has tumors growing around old bullet wounds, I can not deny that I've ever lost an animal.

3. sounds like trex did the right thing. he offered to help find the other, the other hunter decided to pout and leave it out there. as the OP no longer had a tag it was neither his right or responsibility to go out searching for the other bull and if he had been caught with the second bull without a tag then he would have faced fines.

I guess the big question is whether the road OP was on was maintained or not, that is normally the deciding factor when it comes ot shooting from roadways.

 

[old roper]

Here in Co he who kills it tags it that's the law.

Taylor is spot on about waiting if animal was wounded.

Here in Co it's game violation not to make reasonable attempt to track and kill animal you wound or may have wounded.

You missed big bull on first shot but wasn't sure if second shot was hit or miss on spike. I'm trying to figure out why you took off after that big bull and I'm not posting about what your partner did.

As hunter you should of gone after that spike not knowing and that was the ethical thing to do. I would of gone after spike law or no law and I wouldn't of shot at him in the first place not buying deal on your 1st shot I'd have to check.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Maybe a little harsh but you asked...

1)I wouldn't have taken shots that were obviously "shots in the dark" with no more hope of hitting the animals than pure luck. That must be the case or there wouldn't be comments like "knew I missed", "apparently missed", "wasn't sure I hit him"

Yeah, I've missed and wounded animals but it's always a surprise. When I take the shot, I assume I have a very high chance of making an immediately (within seconds) fatal wound. I don't "hope to hit", I'm surprised to miss.

2)The question of waiting or immediately trailing is one of where the wound might be. If it's a wound that will be fatal eventually but will leave the animal mobile for hours, you leave it be. If it's a wound that it unlikely to otherwise be fatal (like a leg hit) you want to trail immediately so the wound keeps bleeding. Otherwise, you have zero hope of recovery. Trailing immediately doesn't give you a lot of hope either but it's better than zero. Considering Point #1, you have no way of knowing because your shots were hope and prayer so waiting or trailing is a guess.

3)Good job on the tracking for 2 hours. That shows a reasonable effort to recover the animal.

4)The ethic as I've always heard it on any game animal shot by more than one person is that the person who makes the first immediately fatal wound owns the animal. It's not about first bullet, it's about the fatal shot. If the spike got up to run more than 2 hours after hit, it obviously wasn't remottely close to a fatal shot. See Point #1 and the whole question will be a lot less relevant.

5)That is some lousy communication. I don't understand how you both started at the same point and had no idea who was tracking what or where. Cell phones may not have coverage but radios are like $20 a pair. Get some and use them.

6)Sounds like your "friend" is kind of a jerk. You guys need to talk about your expectations and come to an agreement or not hunt with him anymore.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

If I were in the same situation as you and your partner I would have NEVER pulled the trigger. That would have been the best outcome for you, your partner, and both animals.

 

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Shame to let a wounded big bull get away. I found this technique helps me occasionally when a blood trail vanishes.
Back track 25 yards or so on the animals track and take a compass reading in the direction the animal was heading.
Then walk that reading say a couple hundred yards or so beyond. Many times they don't bleed out. Its just that the bullet hole/s plugged is all. I know from my experiences. Farther up trail again the animal it may start to bleed or the animal has bled all it can and lays down one final time.

As far as your friend/partner is concerned. My suggestion. Don't {offer} to split the meat between you two. Just flat out give him half. {as your comments lead me to believe you two were working together to achieve the same goal.} If you both had taken a Elk. Then you keep what what you got and not feel bad in doing so. {Or in a previous arrangement perhaps agree on pooling your meat.} In either case. The proper thing to do is "share and share alike." {To accommodate or not is indeed still your decision though.} As far as the tagging goes. Don't worry about it you did the right thing. {A spike is a spike. In no way a bull I would consider being a absolute trophy of an animal.} Tell your friend that. May help to relieve the tensions between you two.
Your hunting abilities: Next time. Take your time and aim good. The animal deserves it. If you miss or gets to far out. Let it go. It was meant to be. Don't be like those others who feel its a need to empty their clip at its hams or get as many shots into the air as they possibly can before the animal disappears from sight. Try not to mimic that kind of {Hunting Disorder} as I call it.
Here's a problem I see more often than I would like. Wounded Animal Syndrome:__Everyone gets anxious to go see what they've harvested. Even I at times._"Just have to resist from doing it."_ Even as little as a 1/2 hour additional wait in this situation could have made a difference in its outcome. A hour or two wait. You would have been posting pix here for all to see.
That is to bad as I sure would have like to have seen that big fellow and his step child. As far as how and where you shot from is your business certainly not my responsibility to critique on your behavior. You took the chance. No tickets were issued. So that's that.

Next year when Elk hunting think before reacting and circumvent some of those not so good idea's you practiced this year. You'll be a much better hunter I guarantee.

 

[old roper]

Brian here in the Western State like Co,ID and few other part of DOW income is from non residents fee's and normally have more than one hunter in a camp same for residents.

When first moved to Co you have a elk camp with 4,5 and larger party and camp rule was if you got into elk couple bulls kill them and others tag them it's was called party hunting. You can wound and elk,deer and he doesn't drop and you could be following his blood trail another hunter see's him and kill him it's his because it come under the party hunting law that you can not kill and someone else tags it.

Couple years after we move here my wife killed a pretty nice buck and she tagged it I dropped her off at the motel and I took deer to be cut up and hanging around BS with the guys. Game Warden stopped in checked my license then tag on the deer asked were my wife was and I told him. They made a trip to the motel with me along and she clean up by then but showed her bloody jeans and rifle used then one of them asked her what she seen thru the scope and she said cross hairs.

Also most western state have law or wounding animals and what you have to do and game warden will determine what's reasonable amount of time and it's pretty hard trying to convince one that you may every effort and same day killing another elk and there snow on the ground. Game Warden here if something is off they want to go in were all the shooting happened and been few cases here were hunters shot into a herd of elk walked off thinking they missed around the mountain they start dropping and lot of hunters are carrying cell phone now.


This day and age with pt system and chance of loosing hunting right for some stupid game violation is worth doing what they did and I forget how many states hook up to that.

 

[taylorce1]

Just because you are in a remote area don't think you're the only ones out there. I've hunted remote areas before and have still run into other hunters and Game Wardens. With spotting scopes with Digi scoping adapters and simple digital cameras they can get the your face and license plate on an SD card from way beyond your eyesight. Hell they might even get some of the action if they are running video.

Then I still have the problem with you shooting at two different animals, and even if your buddy didn't want too you didn't go back to look for the second bull. You should have, even if you had to wait until the next day to do it. If you don't know if you hit one you better make sure you didn't before shooting at another one. Now if you shot at two different animals because you and your buddy had tags, that's called party hunting and I'm pretty sure that is illegal in states that have elk populations large enough for a hunting season.

If I don't have a DRT shot on a game animal that drops them in their tracks I wait a minimum of 30 minutes before tracking. If it is close to dark I'll usually wait until the next morning before tracking once I've found the beginning of the trail. Animals only have two modes "fight or flight" with the "flight" being the preferred method for most animals that are wounded. Even a non fatal wound will cause an animal to lay down if they feel like they've escaped danger. That will give you the chance to sneak up on them again to put a finishing shot in them once their senses have been dulled when the adrenaline has worn off and the pain sets in.

In my eyes both you and your buddy threw out being a responsible hunter for the opportunity to kill something. If all you want to do is kill something then you aren't an hunter at all. Learn from this and become a better hunter from it. Just because you've strayed doesn't mean you can't get back on the path of being a responsible and ethical hunter. Just take your lumps, grow from it, and don't make the same mistakes again. If your buddy isn't willing to do the same then forget about him.

 

[kraigwy]

I normally hunt alone, but on occasions I hunt with someone else, regardless of who shoots what, we split the meat.

I certainly wont fight with someone over a spike.

However if I was hunting with someone who blasted away at running game, it would be our last trip together.

I've shot enough running boar and moving targets to know it's too easy to moof a shot at running animals, leaving the critters to run off and die.

For example:

An elk runs about 15-20 miles per hour. Not many people can tell the difference between 15 and 20 miles per hour at 250 yards.

The difference in lead at 250 yards between 15 & 20 is 3 feet. A three foot error can easily be a gut shot. Gut shots don't normally bleed that much, if at all. No blood, no blood trail and the majestic elk dies a painful death.

To better understand what I'm talking about take the speed of the animal times 1.47 to get the animals velocity in FPS. Now look at your ballistic tables and look at your time of flight for the bullet at any given range.

Change the velocity (speed) of the animal and look at the difference.

In short the problem I see with the OP's story is not fighting over the kill but the blasting away at running elk.

 

[taylorce1]

1. taylorace. you are decrying trex for using methods that are illegal in your state. that is the most idiotic thing I have heard of, if it is legal, there are normally provisions to ensure that it remains a safe practice.

Yes I was on him because it is illegal in my state, as well as yours, and CA, MT, WY, WA, OR, NM, AZ, as well as several others. While not every state has a minimum distance one must be off the road, they all do state that it is illegal to shoot from or across any maintained public road. Now the first post never stated what kind of road TRex99 was on, but if it was a maintained public access road even if it was "primitive" what he was doing was illegal in all the states that hold the majority of elk.

So if you feel that I was idiotic to point out something that was possibly illegal, maybe you should go look at your hunting regulations again. I mentioned it in the first place because I knew it was illegal in my state as well as several others. I only used my state as a reference because I knew exactly what the minimum distance was a hunter needed to be off the road.

There were several things stated in the original post that were borderline illegal/unethical, more so than one buddy being "butt hurt" over not filling his tag with a spike elk.

 

[TRex99]

Thanks everyone for the opinions and some well deserved criticism. I'm not an inexperienced hunter and I have replayed the situation in my mind a number of times. I certainly should have done things differently and have criticized myself over it quite a bit. Things were not going well on this hunt and I wasn't thinking right.

 

[Art Eatman]

Doesn't seem as though more needs to be said.