What would you do if someone sold you a lemon?

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raftman

New member
I recently purchased a rifle in the classifieds section of a different forum. It was advertised as being in flawless condition and 100% reliable. He mentioned the reason he was selling the rifle is because ammo for it was too expensive to shoot regularly. Didn't turn out to be 100% true.

I do feel kind of bad for letting it fool me... but I wasn't expecting someone to actually be deliberately deceptive since the forum isn't a large community and selling a lemon could certainly ruin your reputation.

When I got home... first off the rifle was filthy, like it hadn't been cleaned after at least 500 rounds... which is kind of rude on the seller's part but not the end of the world. Then I noticed the condition wasn't so flawless after all. The guy actually used some sort of black marker or something of that sort to "touch up" all the worn areas and it all easily came off with solvent. Cosmetic perfection isn't everything though and after the cleaning, the action was nice and smooth and I was able to shrug off the Sharpie deception. Then I actually tried firing the thing, and it became clear within the first 10 rounds that the trigger doesn't reset half the time and has to be pushed forward to reset after firing a round.

I am pretty familiar with the design of the gun and with a little bit of tinkering I think I was able to resolve the issue, the trigger seems fine now but I haven't actually tried firing after the fix.

So, what exactly is the thing to do in this situation or any similar situation, where you find out the gun you get is not what they led you believe it was? Do I out the seller as a dishonest person? He did claim to be the original owner of the rifle, so I don't think he'd be able to plead ignorance to the issues the rifle had. If I were unable to resolve the problem (or if the fix ends up not working, and it goes back to having problems), should I ask for my money back? What would ya'll do?
 
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.300 Weatherby Mag

New member
I always try to shoot a used gun before buying it whenever possible.. Thats not possible with a gun in a shop, but when buying from an individual I prefer to shoot it first..
 
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Eagle0711

New member
Why not contact the seller and explain the situation, and ask for a rufund. If he is honest and ethical he may just do it. I know that I would. A persons reputation can be worh a lot. Good luck.
 
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CajunBass

New member
The only "lemon" I ever bought was a 22 rifle I got from a dealer. Didn't notice the barrel was bulged until I got it home. They gave me a full refund. I was sort of surprised since they have "All sales are final" signs posted in several locations, but I figured I had nothing to lose by asking.

Neither do you. Talk to the seller.
 
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MTT TL

New member
I would contact the seller, explain the issue and give him/ her the opportunity to correct the defects by either giving a partial refund or some other recompenses. I would expect nothing however.

The forum you purchased from should have a feedback section, if you don't get satisfaction go ahead and post there. If you are talking real money you could try small claims court.

This is just another cautionary tale. I have seen many, many amusing things from private party sellers over the years, most more amusing the gun shops. Most common is an incorrect low round count, inflated condition percentage, dirt and carbon covering defects, etc, etc ,etc.

Caveat emptor.

Before I meet a seller I always tell them on the phone that I will only pay the agreed upon price if the gun is in the condition as described. This often leads to a new description closer to the real one. Sometimes it leads to a no show. If the weapon is not as described I don't mince words, I tell them the issue and then offer the correct price if I am still interested. If they don't want to deal, I walk away. I have never had a seller from a broken deal post negative feedback about me either. Mostly, they know what they are doing.

It is always a good idea to have a cleaning kit on hand when inspecting the gun to clean the crap out of an "unfired" gun. Snap caps too, to test the trigger as well.
 
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1911rocks

New member
Internet Firearm sales

I haven't been stung like the OP. I have learned a few things. The first was anyone can say NIB (New In Box). It doesn't mean a thing. GunBroker.com is, as far as I know, one of the largest Online auction (right!) site. In the last couple of years GB has become a vast retail assortment. I now make a point to let my local M&P (Mom & Pop) gun stores to procure the gun I want. I will wait for a Gun Show so I can see it, touch it, dry fire it, etc. I realize there are legitimate dealers on GB et al, but anyone can look good on the Internet. Not far from where I live is a "retailer" that uses GB. The actual store front is actually an old automotive garage. The floors are still greasy (feels like the floor at a dirty McDonalds). No AC in the summer, space heaters in the winter. It's doubles as a lawnmower repair business. When you see the GB site you'd think it was a Cabela's or BassPro. Caveat Emptor. OBTW, next time you're on GB, notice how many bids are placed on many items. They start with either a high initial bid or a low starting point and a reserve and 1 bid. They remain like that for the total auction time frame. IMHO
 
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blume357

New member
Simple answer.... make lemonade....

you got what you got.... I might let the seller know that you know they miss-represented the gun... but I would not expect any recourse..

fix er up.. you never can tell, she might turn out to be a nice rifle in the end... you know looks aren't everything... if not for alcohol and dark nights humans would have been extinct a long time ago.
 
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Kreyzhorse

New member
I agree with the other guys that you can certainly ask the seller for a refund and explain why. If he isn't interested, then it really comes back to buyer beware.

Always check a used gun carefully before buying it. If it's dirty, ask to clean it first. If the bore is really oily, run a patch thought it and wipe it down.

Good luck and I hope you can get this resolved.
 
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MTT TL

New member
In the last couple of years GB has become a vast retail assortment. I now make a point to let my local M&P (Mom & Pop) gun stores to procure the gun I want.
Click to expand...

I think the OP was talking about a PPS. Gun broker is mostly retail these days, figure for the people that can't find what they are looking for locally. These days there are dozens (hundreds?) of on line forums that advertise PPS with local ads from private sellers. Nearly all of my purchases in the last few years have been though PPS. The deals are much, much better than gun broker can possibly provide and you deal face to face with the seller making the deal less risky as you can examine the product prior to shipping and you exchange the gun for terms right then instead of going through something like the GPal hell.

:barf:
 
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Dwight55

New member
I can empathize with you Raftman, . . . bought a small .22 autoloader a few years back off a computer gun site, . . . and I was very disappointed in the purchase.

I wanted it for a pocket gun, . . . and for some nostalgic reasons too, . . . but wound up taking it to a dealer and trading it. I told him about the feeding issues, . . . he did not seem at all concerned, . . . later found out he knew exactly what to do about it.

Long story short: caveat emptor, . . . let the buyer beware. I am very careful now about what I buy over the 'net.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
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Skans

Active member
Fix it or have it fixed. I look at it this way - when buying used guns, its up to the purchaser to make sure he's getting what he intended to get.

If you want full service with a guaranty then buy new from reputable gun stores.
 
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FrankenMauser

New member
Since you've already removed his "finish repair", and done something to the trigger... I believe it's too late to ask for your money back. He may not have been completely honest, but you altered the rifle from its condition at the time of purchase.

You can always ask, but don't expect him to do anything for you (especially if there was a bill of sale).

I got taken by a dealer once. I ended up having to put at least 20-25 hours of work into that pistol, just to get it to run properly. I still own it for two reasons:
1. I will never get my money back out of it (that model was discontinued within 6 months of release -> for a reason).
2. It works now. Until I find an appropriate replacement for it, I have no need to dump the lemon(ade). (On that note - Does anyone here have a Colt Mustang Pocketlite for sale?)
 
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Jimmy10mm

New member
The "touch up" on the finish makes it a dishonest seller AFAIC. Selling the rifle dirty is rude but disguising the wear is inexcusable. I'd ask for a refund but I wouldn't hold my breath to get it. Good luck and I hope it turns out to be a good shooter now that you've fixed the trigger.
 
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DnPRK

New member
I assume you paid a premium for "flawless and 100% reliable".

Document every defect with a sharply focused close-up picture with a camera with a macro feature. Do not use a blurry cell phone camera from across the room and expect people to believe you.

Then out the liar by posting the pictures.
 
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raftman

New member
This was not a cheap rifle, it's in the neighborhood of $700. There was indeed a bill of sale, which of course includes the standard "as is" statement. I am very doubtful I would be able to get my money back. Particularly, as was pointed out, since I removed the marker ink (or whatever it was) and fixed the trigger. As far as what will happen to gun... I guess I am keeping in hopes that even though it's not as pretty as was claimed, it will still make for a great gun. But that still doesn't change the fact that I was lied to, and the seller is under the assumption that he is minus a bad rifle and plus $700 ... and got away with it.

The thing is, I tend to hold "gun people" to higher standard than other people. We throw around the title "law abiding citizen" I guess I've always used that to infer that there's a greater likelihood of honesty and so forth.

I'm a pretty forgiving person and try to give the benefit of the doubt when reasonable and I definitely prefer to avoid conflict, but if the guy was the original owner like he said he was, then who else would have applied a shoddy "touch up" job to well-worn areas, especially since it was advertised as being "flawless"? And if he is the original owner, and clearly fired the gun at some point and quite a bit, how could he not know the trigger didn't reset? A trigger that won't reset doesn't live up his claim of 100% reliability.

The conclusion I've come to after some time to think and reading the opinions here is that I'm going to send the guy a message and ask why the ad failed to mention that the trigger didn't reset and instead alleged total reliability. Finish wear isn't a big deal to me, I figure it would have gotten some wear eventually in my possession anyways, but I'll also ask why the ad misrepresented the cosmetic condition of the rifle, and what's more the cheap method that was attempted touching it up. If by some miracle he has some compelling reasons as to why the gun was the way it was and not like it was advertised, I guess I will let go... live and learn. If he gets unpleasant about it and/or gives some nonsense, I'll do what was suggested and bust out my DSLR and macro lens and show each spot of wear that was once concealed and give a full account of the trigger issue, and compare that with the description in the ad.
 
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blume357

New member
did you buy this from and individual or a store....?

I assumed it was out of state or such and that's why you could not see the condition until after the transfer...

the reason I ask the question is that I've found that 'stores' don't usually look at, check fuction, let alone clean a used gun to sell. If they have a number of guns for sale on the internet... some computer nerd is probably writing and placing the add for them out of a back room.

then again, I've also noticed a number of individuals don't know how to clean a gun either.... I would never even offer a gun to someone unless I had gotten it to SMI (Saturday Morning Inspection) standards.
 
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MTT TL

New member
The thing is, I tend to hold "gun people" to higher standard than other people. We throw around the title "law abiding citizen" I guess I've always used that to infer that there's a greater likelihood of honesty and so forth.
Click to expand...

People are people. While most legal gun owners are much less likely to be criminals this does not mean they won't stoop to dishonest behavior. It might feel as though you were defrauded but it would be nearly impossible to prove.

He may also have not known the rifle was problem plagued if for example he bought it used, didn't shoot it much etc. Not saying that is the case just a possibility. If it was the case, he would be much more likely to make it right.
 
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