What to do? Woman stabs your child

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Rangerrich99

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So here's the question:

If you were either one of the parents, and had a firearm, can you use it AFTER the woman begins walking across the street?

Warning: a child is actually stabbed in the face in the video. If that's a problem for you, don't press 'play' and just read the article:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/woman-calmly-walks-up-toddler-19111400

I'm asking this question in the context of American laws, excepting CA and NY, obviously. I know, each state is slightly different, etc. Just what would each of you do in this situation/what you think the law allows where you are.
 
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Gary Gill

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My understanding is when the offender retreats, that event is over. To take action afterwards not in self defense or defense of others would make you the aggressor. Keep in mind I am not a lawyer.
 
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zukiphile

New member
If you were either one of the parents, and had a firearm, can you use it AFTER the woman begins walking across the street?
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Given that the attack is over and you've a wounded child, I'd attend to the child. What you do to the attacker a minute or a month after is going to be equally legal or illegal.
 
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Rangerrich99

New member
from the article:

"A woman was caught on camera allegedly slashing a young boy in the face with a knife as he walked with his family on the street.

The three-year-old boy was rushed to hospital in southern Georgian capital Tbilisi with two deep knife wounds to his nose and right cheek.

Shocking footage of the attack posted online shows a woman in black top approaches a family of four on a pavement from the opposite direction.

She stops and appears to jab an object into the boy's face in an unprovoked attack.

The boy quickly covers his face as his stunned mother tries to pull him back.

The suspect returns in an attempt to stab the young girl but the father jumps in front of his daughter to protect her.

The father then runs after the woman before she flashes the sharp blade to scare him away.

According to local media, the woman, who has not been named in reports, is a 50-year-old unemployed artist and she was arrested by the police shortly afterwards.

She was reportedly charged with inflicting grievous bodily harm on a minor."
 
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MTT TL

New member
In my state citizens are allowed to make an arrest for felonies that they have observed. Stabbing a child in the face with a knife is a felony in my state. Had I observed this, I would make every effort to take the offender in to custody and to prevent her escape. I would then turn her over to the County Sheriff as soon as possible (Also required by law).

If she attempted to use deadly force on me while I was attempting a citizen's arrest then I would use whatever force is necessary to defend myself. I imagine a firearm would come in to play at some point. For me, likely when she turned around to try to stab the father who was trying to detain her. A knife is deadly force at that range and therefore deadly force would be justified.
 
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HiBC

New member
My take,outrage aside...

We can PREVENT additional deadly harm from being done.If this 'thing',after initially cutting a child,approaches knife in hand,to continue the attack..then its OK to PREVENT her by reasonable means. A knife is a deadly weapon,and she has demonstrated the will to attack.

However,if the immediate threat is over..even if she is escaping,in most cases,we are not OK to use deadly force for vengeance.

The outrage/emotions would be only human,and fully understandable...
But its good to remember the child who has been assaulted will suffer double injury if the parent goes to jail.

They will need you at home giving them the support that only you can give.

Tend to keeping the child alive,then being there for them.You might be willing to suffer prison for the child,but the child will suffer for you being in prison. Better you are at home.


They might fail you, to some degree.but let LEO's,Courts,Prisons,etc handle the rest.
 
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Metric

New member
As a thought experiment, suppose the father had pulled a pistol and blown the woman's head off, as she was moving away from the family (but within, let's say, 10 yards).

Could anyone comment on how likely it would be that 1) the father would be prosecuted, and 2) a jury would vote to convict?

How much would such estimates vary by jurisdiction and how much of a difference would the video make?

Assume that it's fairly clear that the woman is retreating and is not an imminent threat, and thus not self-defense.
 
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MTT TL

New member
Could anyone comment on how likely it would be that 1) the father would be prosecuted, and 2) a jury would vote to convict?
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Anyone can comment. So far as knowing you may as well ask how many angels can dance on the head of a green tip.
 
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FITASC

New member
In the UK, any retaliation of ANY kind would land you in prison; in most US states, shooting a fleeing perp is going to land you in jail. Now, chasing after them, and then having them whirl around and attack you with a knife should get that perp killed.
 
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mehavey

New member
If the fleeing terrorist has just stabbed you and/or yours, and is now moving off with said
weapon still hand where other lives can be reasonably foreseen to be at imminent risk....

From 'highly reliable" source: ;)

"A civilian's use of deadly force is generally justified if he or she reasonably believe that he or she is or other innocent lives are in imminent danger of death or serious injury.[1] Justification and affirmative defenses vary by state and may include certain property crimes, specific crimes against children or prevention of sexual assaults."

What say the Legal Beagles . . . . ?
 
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HiBC

New member
I certainly understand the reaction.

A story like this is a bit like pulling the lever on a slot machine. The mental responses roll by. The thought of someone knifing your child or grandchild certainly stirs the primal juices.


Posting whatever comes to mind in permanent fashion on the internet might not be in your best interests
 
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rickyrick

New member
I saw this on the news, it is clear that initially the family didn’t even realize what had happened until a few seconds later. The dad was definitely the last to realize what had happened.
I couldn’t tell but I think maybe the woman had intentions of stabbing the other child but the father pulled the kid out of reach.
The attacker still had the knife in hand as she casually walked across the street.

If the stabbing had been in a vital area of the body, there was no real time to respond.

Immediately caring for the child’s wounds was the only possible recourse as the woman looks to have left the scene. A gun wouldn’t have cleared the holster before the injuries were sustained.
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
The question was:

Rangerrich99 said:
So here's the question:

If you were either one of the parents, and had a firearm, can you use it AFTER the woman begins walking across the street?
Click to expand...

The short answer is: No, not if "use it" means "shoot her." IMHO, you can certainly draw it and be prepared to shoot her if she reverses direction and tries to re-initiate the attack (which, in fact, I believe she did).
 
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zxcvbob

New member
MTT has the right answer. You can't shoot her after she has retreated, BUT if you personally witnessed the felony you can arrest her yourself and turn her over to the sheriff (then shoot her when she turns the knife on you to resist arrest)
 
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USNRet93

New member
The father then runs after the woman before she flashes the sharp blade to scare him away.
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I would have gone after the woman, handgun out..and confronted her. If she showed me the blade, adios...
 
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Tom Servo

Staff
We're splitting fine hairs over things like distance, but the legal concern is threat. A woman just randomly stabbed one child and tried to stab a second. Her behavior indicates that she is a threat so long as she is reasonably close to the victims.

Had she run off, and the father given chase, that might be an issue. Then again, maybe not. Ultimately, it comes down to how a prosecutor views it, whether he thinks it's reasonable to bring charges, and how a grand jury would perceive it.

Since the victim did not shoot the assailant and there's no legal case, there's not really a place for this thread here.
 
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