What to do with set-back bullets?

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Drjones

New member
Hi. I was reading THIS thread and it featured a pic of .40 bullets in which the bullet had been shoved back into the case a bit.

Well, I inspected the Speer Gold Dots in my carry gun, and lo and behold, a couple of them were set back. Specifically, the one at the top of the mag was set back the most. Probably about 1mm more than the rest. Why this bullet in particular?

What should I do with these bullets? Are they safe to shoot? I already shifted it to the bottom of the mag, and I'm going to buy new carry ammo and shoot this old stuff this saturday.

Are these set-back bullets safe for the range????

Also: I don't mess with my carry gun much. It stays loaded, and I don't shoot it too often, which means that it isn't constantly loaded and unloaded with the same bullets.

Thanks
Drjones
 
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Jim Watson

New member
I don't have the computations at hand but a set back of .039" (1 mm) very likely would lead to excessive pressure. Trash the round(s). Don't use them for practice. On the bottom of the mag for the last shot in self defense when a kaBoomed gun is the last thing to worry about... OK until you can get to the store.
 
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blades67

New member
I'd put it in my "Bullet Hammer" (Three year olds come up with some pretty funny stuff.) and give it a couple of soft raps, then measure it. Repeat if needed. Then I'd put it in the seating die station, run the ram up, move it to the taper crimp station and run the ram up again. Measure one more time and put it back into the magazine.
 
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Hkmp5sd

New member
I agree with blades67, just reseat it and shoot it next time you go to the range and recycle your carry ammo. No need to dispose of it.
 
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WESHOOT2

New member
DANGER -- DO NOT FIRE SETBACK CARTRIDGE

Do NOT fire setback cartridge.
Repair or discard.

Pressures can escalate to catastrophic levels; can you say KB? Fire some and you might see KB. Bad.
 
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Hal

New member
Here's the table for a 180 gr .40 S&W, from,

http://greent.com/40Page/ammo/40/180gr.htm

Overall Length Pressure
1.140" 26,195 psi
1.130" 27,521 psi
1.120" 29,079 psi
1.115" 29,924 psi
1.100" 32,900 psi
1.075" 39,641 psi
1.050" 50,954 psi
1.040" 57,926 psi
1.030" 66,890 psi
1.020" 80,345 psi
1.010" 101,286 psi
1.000" 138,744 psi

If the setback is only .039", then you can be in the safe range of SAAMI specs. Setback is more of a serious concern than 999 out of 1000 shooters understand. Overall, I'd side with everybody so far and err on the side of caution when dealing with setback. Disposing of a shorter than normal round seems like a prudent move, rather than risk a multi hundred dollar gun over a $.50 round. From the reading I've done concerning Ka Booms, I'm pretty convinced setback is to blame in at least 50% of the instances. As a long time reloader, I know how a taper crimp can actully work against you and lead to setback.(Think about it, the taper makes the case mouth smaller right? Good for holding the bullet against the inertia of recoil, bad for holding the bullet in place when it hits the magazine or feed ramp).

-Bottom line here is that picture jar posted in the other thread,,,,the round in the center may/may not be grossly overpressure. It's a dead bang certinty( sorry for the bad pun) the one on the right is a disaster waiting to happen.
-If you have to cycle your ammunition, always use premium ammunition like Hydra Shok for example. Federal uses a cannalure on the case, below the bullet to help prevent setback.(That's what that jagged line is around the case).
-Reexamine what your pet defensive load is. Sure, the 180 gr looks better and is better. HOWEVER, if you cycle lots and shoot little, a 165 gr might suit you better.
-Don't get overly hung up on it, K? Not to downplay the problem by any means. KB's are pretty rare, considering the total number of rounds expended vs the ones that happen. As long as you're aware of the problem, then you can take steps to deal with it.

***Why the top bullet? The top round of a fully loaded magazine is going to be jammed against the bottom of the slide, bullet first. The spring of the slide, plus the inertia of the other rounds as they try to bang up and down when you move, is putting constant pressure on the nose of the bullet. Drop the mag and hold it against the outside of the frame and take a look at it. If you strip out all of the rounds, then put them back in, you can see how dramatic the difference is as you load them back in.
 
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KSFreeman

New member
I used to get this every once and a while when I carried a G23. Good reason to inspect your ammo and to fill your mags with fresh ammo.

I always pitched my setback cartridges.
 
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Kentucky Rifle

New member
I went the light and fast route with my Federal Hydra-Shocks...

My contact at Federal told me that the minimum "SAMMI" OAL length for 135gr Hydra-Shok "PD"'s is 1.085". I've chambered the same round over and over to see if I could get anywhere close to "the danger zone" and the closest I could get is 1.120". I haven't done that to my RBCD's yet. but I will.

KR
 
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jar

New member
I would like to thank all of the posters who have responded to this thread and to DrJones specifically for having the good sense and courage to examine his ammo and post the results here.

As most of you know, I am concerned about the 40S&W. My concerns revolve around it's use more than the design itself. When all goes right, the 40S&W will do exactly what it is supposed to do. But...

We are in a time when a large number of people are buying their first handgun. These users, like most of us when we first started, have not yet seen the elephant. Many of these people are also buying reloaded ammo to save money or reloading themselves. IMHO, the 40S&W is NOT the place to start.

I hope that other forums will pick up this or similar threads. As more experienced handgunners I believe that it is our responsibility to help keep shooting safe. That means we must help educate newer shooters on potential hazards. Please keep reminding folk that guns and ammo ARE dangerous.

If we all do our part, hopefully at least one shooter will avoid having a KaBoom.

Again, my sincere thanks to each and every one of you.
 
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JPM70535

New member
I agreewith Blades. Just place the setback round in your "bullet hammer" AKA Inertial bullet puller and tap gently until the round goes back to proper length, then reseat and taper crimp it and it will be as good as new.

No need to trash a perfectly good round
 
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Mal H

Staff
I'll repeat it for Drjones - He doesn't have any reloading equipment.

One thing about the setback bullets is that it usually is a dynamic process. That is, if you discover a bullet setback .04 inches, don't assume that that's where it will stop. Setback is caused by one or more problems in the loading process; improper sizing, improper crimping, etc. Once setback starts, it isn't going to magically fix itself.

Let's say the setback round is in a position other than the first in the magazine. There is a good possibility that further setback can occur making that round even more dangerous as the rounds above it get fired.

It ain't worth it - toss 'em.

Drjones - One piece of reloading equipment you might considering purchasing is a dial caliper. Eyeballing things ammo-wise and making decisions on it isn't a good practice. Eyeballing comes first certainly, but then you measure to confirm your suspicions.
 
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Clayton Hufford

New member
I have recently experienced a lot of setback problems with Hornady 230gr XTP+P and Remington 230gr GS BJHP in .45acp. The rounds are either set back an unsafe amount right out of the box, or after one chambering the round is too set back to use.

Why oh why don't they use a heavy crimp and take of this issue from the get go?

Regards,
Clay
 
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C.R.Sam

New member
Crimp MAY hold the bullet.
Proper neck tension SHOULD hold the bullet.

If bullet is a tad undersize or case is a tad oversize, crimp will probably not hold the bullet.

Recrimping often leads to LESS neck tension. Case springs back and bullet doesn't.

Sam
 
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jar

New member
Thank you Sam. That is a little understood and often significant piece of information. It's things like this that we tend to learn the hard way that we can share with others out there.
 
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Eric Larsen

New member
Save them all and sell them at the next gunshow as +P+ 40S&W ammo. :rolleyes: KIDDING......
Id just hold on to them....put them in a place where its impossible to mix them up with other ammo and if you get the chance to fix them later...you still have them.
I have just tossed them in the past....to risky.
Shoot well
 
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Lancel

New member
Rae, you really got my attention with that chart. :eek:

Glad I always took the safe route and fixed or discarded bad lengths. Plugged that data into an Excel spreadsheet, the pressure graph is a classic "J" curve - goes up like a rocket.

That's a good info website too. Going back to read some more.:)

Larry
 
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