What to do with a gun design idea?

[Mal H]

Correia (and Sabre62),
You can do a preliminary patent search using IBM's patent site. They have access to all patents, however, this will not be as exhaustive a search as a patent atty can do for you since IBM's on-line data only goes back to 1971. As an example, I searched for "gun sight" and got 158 hits. Sabre62, maybe you can find out who stole your idea.
www.patents.ibm.com

 

[Correia]

I have a question for some of you folks who are involved in the industry or have ever invented anything.

I have this idea for a gun design, its similar to an existing design that I see some big flaws in. I've thought my idea out quite a bit and think that my design is better. What do I do? How do I go about getting a patent, or seeing if my idea infringes on the existing design.

And if it is ok to patent, who do you talk with to try and sell it? I know that we have some people on this board in the industry, any advice would be appreciated.

Larry Correia

 

[Sabre62]

I'm not in the industry, but I have had some experience with inventions. Here's the story for you and I hope it sheds some light on what NOT to do.

About 8 or 9 years ago, I came up with a little gizmo that facilitated adjusting fixed (dove tailed) sights on almost any handgun. Built a prototype, tested it extensively and worked a few bugs out of it. I also showed it to a few gunsmith friends of mine and they used it and liked it, because you could adjust the sights on the weapon without the use of a vice or hammer and puches.

Anyway, I ran across one of those companies that will test, patent and market your idea. They also they would do a patent search etc. etc. I gave them the drawings, a prototype and $500. I got a real nifty report back saying there was no such thing in the patent books and their engineers loved it and couldn't find anything wrong with the design. The cost for them to continue the process was $10,000. That money would garner me 30% of the profit on any sold item. Basically, every $5000 bought me another 15% increase in the profit taking.

Needless to say, I didn't have even a fraction of the necessary money, so I got my stuff back from them. About 2 years later, while leafing through an American Rifleman Issue, there was an add for the very item that I designed and built. NOTHING was different about it and somebody else was cashing in on my idea.

Later, I found out, that you have 12 months after making a design public, to patent or copy right it. Long story short, it would be wise of you to contact a patent attorney and find out exactly what you need to do. There are a lot of resources online that may be able to help. Basically, cover your a$$ on every front and get solid legal advice. It may cost you in the short run, but if your idea is worthy, it will pay you back ten fold.

Sabre

 

[Sabre62]

Mal,

I'd love to find out who took my idea, but I don't think knowing will do me any good. If you think that there is any recourse, let me know. Overall, I think a fight over that would cost me more than it would be worth in the long run, but let me know. In the mean time, I'll check out the site you provided a link to.

Sabre

 

[bookkie]

Sabre:

I've been around this a little through the companies I've worked for. You may have a case even though you did not patent your idea. If you have proof that you came up with the idea first, you may have a cause of action. It may cost you a few dollars up front, but it may be worth your time to consult a good patent attorney...

Richard



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Richard

The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!

 

[Correia]

Thanks for the info guys. I will do the search, and if it isn't taken then I will try and find a patent lawyer to advise me. (once I can afford it )

 

[Dennis]

A friend of mine is a computer software developer. He documents his progress by mailing himself computer disks (with paper documentation, dates, etc.) every time he believes it is advisable.

He then has his work to a given date in a sealed package with a postmark date on the outside of the package.

I have NO idea how this might hold up in a legal case! Any thoughts?

 

[George Hill]

Dennise, that no longer holds up - it was called "The Poorman's Patent" and the Supream Court put it down... If I remember right.

I got several designs myself - but unfortunatly I dont have a spare 10,000 for a patent APPLICATION... (which is no garantee you will get it)

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Not all Liberals are annoying... Some are Dead.
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac

 

[Dennis]

Thanks, George. Time to send my friend to an attorney!

 

[artech]

I've been in the gun industry until recently, and I've seen a lot of ideas cross the table. Before you spend a bunch of money fooling around with patents, you might want to consider spending a lot less money and just finding a shop to build your product.

Set up a website, sell it on the web, work out of your garage. The only way you could get in trouble is if someone already patented it, which really isn't likely, and once you are selling it, nobody can come along behind and patent an existing product.

Patents, from what I've seen in the gun industry so far, only keep honest men honest. Unless you have a legal fund set up to defend your patent, save your money and just start cranking out product.

I have seen some really good ideas go belly-up because somebody wanted to go the full monty with patents when a quick and dirty short production run would have made a lot more sense(and money!). I also know of one company that went belly-up financially trying to defend the patent that they really did own, while the copycat outfit is still in business. Just my two cents, but I have seen it over and over again.

If you advertise, they will buy it! Go for it!

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With my shield or on it...

 

[bfoster]

I own a tool & die shop that derives a very substantial portion of its' revenue from the sales of tooling to manufacturers in the firearms industry.

I've got to agree with arteach...for the profits derived from sales of a typical model it would be awfully tough to defend a patent. You may find that the current liability situation works for you. R&D in the industry is currently "pinched" due to the legal mess- efforts are directed in large measure toward areas of "exposure" rather than to the basics.

Whichever way you decide to go, start with a working prototype which has all "bugs" eliminated. Even the best designs evolve in the prototype stage- if only to make actual production easier and/or less costly. Pay attention to fit, finish & styling: unless you tackle the whole project yourself, marketing experts will be involved one way or another, and at a stage which may be earlier than you suspect. First impressions are very important. Sales people may or may not have expertise on the technical end of things, if not they often have a hard time "seeing" the market potential of a rough prototype.

If your idea is for a modification to be performed to an existing arm, I see merit in arteach's idea of selling it over the net along with placing ads in selected publications. But if your idea is for a new firearm you will find that you have to get into the distribution system. My take on this, for what it is worth, is that this is best left to someone who really knows this field: there are plenty of headaches in store for you (as well as much satisfaction) if you become a firearms manufacturer: the day to day running of even a modest arms plant is a full time job.

Best of luck, Bob

 

[Correia]

Thanks for the information, my question now is; who do I talk to about possible production? Should I just start calling manufacturers? I am not totally ignorant of the business world, just mostly ignorant.

If I created a web page to create interest, would someone be able to take my idea and not give me anything for it. Not that that matters a whole lot, I would be more satisfied seeing something from my imagination built than I would getting the money for it and never seeing one created.

Any engineers or machinests out there have an idea of how much it would cost to make a prototype? I'll be honest, I'm a full time college student who makes around $7.00 an hour at a part time job, I don't seem to have $10,000 laying around for a patent application.

I did a search on the web page provided by Mal H, and found one idea that is similar from the late eighties, and similar to an idea from a couple of years ago, they are both patentable, and my idea is as different from either of them as they are from each other. (though I think mine is better )

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[bfoster]

Without knowing full details of the project it isn't possible to quote prototype costs. Find a local shop capable of doing the work well. For this sort of project a non-disclosure agreement is quite normal, and if worded correctly is legally binding. You will need either good drawings or the CAD equivalent. Most shops can read both .DXF and .IGS files as these formats are the least common denominator of information exchange in mechanical engineering & manufacturing.

I'd suggest that you talk to other shooters in your area, perhaps at a gunshop, or perhaps on campus: despite the prevailing p.c. climate in the universities there are often several professors on the staff who are avid shooters. Someone should be able to point you in a good direction. Bob