what to do if load data conflicts?

[BombthePeasants]

I'm working up new loads thanks to the awesome Orionengnr (spelling?) who was kind enough to give me some samples of different powders to try. Today I made 10 rounds using W231 [200gr LSWC/6.0gr W231/1.230" COL]. I have the Hornady 7th Ed. manual, and the Lyman 3rd Ed. Pistol & Revolver manual. In both of those manuals, I'm in the safe zone. However, later this evening, on a whim, I went to the hodgdon/IMR/Winchester online site, to triple check myself. ON their website, they list the max. powder being 5.6gr! the Lyman manual (which is nearest in COL to my previous loads, using CLAYS), the max load is 6.1gr (0.1 over my load), while the Hornady manual lists max at 6.5gr. Question is: Are my loads too high? Fortunately, I only made 10, but I'm not sure if I should try at least one, and check for pressure signs. Need advice! thanks in advance!

 

[4runnerman]

What Caliber are you loading?. It is good that you are consulting more than one resource for your info. Find midline in your load and start there.Work your way up slowly and always watch for pressure signs along the way.I myself never load hot loads any how. I see no reason too. Im shooting 25 yards at tops. Paper really don't care how fast bullet is going when it hits. Shortens case life,uses more powder,harder on barrel.I shoot 45 ACP and my loads are about 850 fps. More than fast enough.

 

[BombthePeasants]

oh. It's .45ACP. And I too, like to use medium power loads, because of economy of scale. And the main manual I had in front of me was the Hornady manual, which shows a max of 6.5gr, so I felt like I was in the middle zone...oh well.

 

[4runnerman]

6.0 gr w231 is up there.should put you around 920 fps. Your undermax ,but very close to it. 5.3 or 5.4 get you around 840 fps.

another good powder to try is titgroup and Unique for 45 ACP loads.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

The conventional wisdom is to start working up a load with the lowest starting load you find. There are a few powders where this does not apply but those loads/powders are generally pretty well labeled, like "Do Not Reduce Loads More Than 3%." Otherwise, start at the lowest low and look for proper performance and pressure signs. You should not be starting in the middle of ANY data.

QuickLoad seems to think you'd be right about the 20,000psi range with that load. I certainly wouldn't trust that prediction without some history with matching the gun to QuickLoad's output though.

 

[700sage]

The very first thing you have to remember about reloading is that the books are a guide to follow, not hard and fast rules. The second thing you must remember is that the people that publish this data have to err on the side of caution because they don't want to be responsible for someone blowing themselves up using the data in their book. I commonly reload above what the books list as max. However, when working up a new load the books average works well as a guideline to start with and then slowly increase until pressure or problems are observed. Then back down a bit and you've got a max load. No book can tell you what the max safe load is in your gun. Every gun is different. That's why so many of us spend so much money on reloading components. Trying to find out what load shoots well at max levels in a hunting rifle can sometimes take years. That's part of the fun!

 

[BombthePeasants]

UPDATE: I have pulled those bullets, and am reloading them with 5.6gr, which is max. according to the website, but well within safe zone on the 2 books...

 

[noylj]

Is there a reason you can't start at the lowest starting load and work up in safe and sane manner? Depending on chamber dimension, there is a great difference between the max in one gun and another.
The following is a compilation of loading manuals for 200gn lead bullets and 231/HP38 powder.

.45 ACP
Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Start/Max Power Factor COL
L-SWC 195 231/HP38 3.9 642 Start 125
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.0 694 Start/Accurate 139
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.1 Several small groups 0
Lead 200 231/HP38 4.4 748 Start 150
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.4 771 Start 154 1.225
Cast L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.5 719 Start 144
Cast L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.5 808 Start/Accurate 162
swaged L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.6 739 Start/Accurate 148 1.185
swaged L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.8 650 4.8-5.3gn 130
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 4.8 800 Start 160
Lead 200 231/HP38 4.8 804 Start 161
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 Favorite
swaged L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 803 Max 161 1.185
Cast L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 811 Max 162
Cast L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.0 892 Max 178
RCBS #45-201K SWC 201 231/HP38 5.0 800 161
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.1 Target 0 1.224
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.2 850 Max/Favorite 170 1.250
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.2 739 Start 148
L-SWC, L-C/T 200 231/HP38 5.2 800 Start 160
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.2
Hdy L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.3 Accurate
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.3 Target-Serv. small groups 0
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.4 Favorite 0
H&G68 L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 Bullseye pet load 1.250
L-SWC, L-RN 200 231/HP38 5.5 910 Max 182
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 841 168 1.263
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.5 850 170
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.6 914 Max 183 1.225
L-SWC 195 231/HP38 5.7 962 Max 188
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 5.9 920 184 1.250
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 6.0 850 Hardball load 170 1.160
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 6.0 987 Max 197
RCBS #45-201K SWC 201 231/HP38 6.0 955 192
swaged L-SWC 200 231/HP38 6.1 850 Max 170
L-SWC 200 231/HP38 6.5 923 Max 185
L-SWC, L-C/T 200 231/HP38 6.5 950 Max 190

 

[Edward429451]

If you've never loaded this load before then you should use the starting load. The starting loads are called the starting loads for a reason, so us guys loading blind have a place to start. You hear of lots of guys saying start midrange or 15% less than max...they are shaking hands with Murphy, and I wish them luck.

Somewhere along the line I learned to use starting loads (prolly my dad), and it stuck. After years of reloading I happened to get a Chrony and it was a real eye opener. I proved in several instances to achieve near/max velocities with starting loads. The difference in expected velocity was something my exact conditions created. I like fat bullets, maybe my seating depth or degree of crimp, who knows?

The loads are safe in my guns, but the point being that it is very easy to get more than you think you are. I think its a safe bet that if the velocity is there then the pressure is there also. So it is well advised to use the starting loads and pay attention to the differences in details of your load vs the book load.

 

[BombthePeasants]

I concur w/ your logic. I will start again when I get home. Part of my problem is that I'm likely overthinking it. I use the Lee Classic Turret, w/ the Pro Auto Disk dispenser. I'm working under the logic that the cavity that falls in the middle of the powder range will likely give me the proper load...

EDIT: Please allow me to expand upon my original question. How does one who uses a dispenser such as the Pro Auto Disk find the right load?

For my first and heretofore only workup of .45ACP loads, I used a single stage press and I manually loaded powder into each case. What a pain in the rear!...anyhow, I'm trying to determine the process of "working up" loads using the new equipment. In my previous experience, I used CLAYS, and I loaded 10 rounds each, increasing 0.1 gr per batch. At the bottom of the loadings, the rounds would not cycle the firearm. So I guess I wanted to skip that part, and that's why I started in the "middle" of the powerband.

 

[noylj]

I take the lowest starting load and determine what cavity will give me that charge weight OR LESS. I then work up to the first MAX in the loading data compilation and determine what cavity will give me that charge OR LESS. I have never needed a maximum load, but have worked up past the lowest MAX when groups were decreasing in size and there were no pressure indications.
A change of 0.1 or 0.2gn is not going to take an inaccurate load and make it accurate. I find the Lee cavities cover the loading steps I need. After that, I "may" try some loads with my regular production measure to "fill in" the data.

 

[Jerry45]

I had just the opposite problem with the Lyman book and the Hodgdon’s site loading for my 45/70 Marlin Guide gun with a 300 gr. JHP. Lyman says max load is 39 gr. (and this off the top of my head so the grs. may be + or – a little but there WAS a BIG difference.) Hogdgon site says 53 gr.. I had loaded and shot 36. grs. and there is no way in hell I want to load 53 grs. Actually, I’m pretty sure 53 grs. will be a compressed load.