What pistol for this purpose?

[CastleBravo]

What semi-automatic pistol (production or even custom) would you choose to meet these requirements?

1. Compact size (~4" barrel and enough grip so your little finger isn't hanging in the air).

2. Light weight. If it weighs as much as a Combat Commander it is too heavy for this purpose.

3. Chambered in 9x19mm, with as little recoil in that caliber as possible... assume the pistol is meant for someone who is relatively sensitive to recoil.

4. Good ergonomics for average-to-small hands; short trigger reach and no double-column magazines.

5. The easier it is to rack the slide, the better. If a woman of average size and hand strength would have difficulty doing this with a little practice the pistol is not acceptable.

6. Must be reliable and accurate.

7. SA, DA or DAO are all acceptable.

I know that some of these requirements tend to contradict each other (e.g. making a pistol lighter tends to increase recoil) but want to see what pistols people think meet these overall requirements best.

I have some ideas, but all of the pistols I now own are full-sized 10mm Autos. Personally, I dig big guns and think more boom more better. However, it is hard to hide a Glock 20C in your shorts and I'd eventually like to have a pistol that won't scare the crap out of a relative novice shooter the first time they pull the trigger.

Thanks,

 

[Marko Kloos]

A SIG P225 or P239 would fit the bill, although they'd be at the upper limit of your weight requirement.

A Kahr P9, maybe? The Kahr barrel is less than 4", but it's light and flat, with a smooth trigger and a very slim, yet four-finger grip.

 

[Brian Busch]

Sounds like a S&W J-Frame is a better solution then a semiauto for this purpose.

If it must be a semi, the Kahr P9 is pretty light and small.

 

[The Plainsman]

Try a....

S&W 908, although the barrel length is 3 1/2".

http://www.smith-wesson.com/sport/results_output.cfm

 

[CastleBravo]

Just to clarify:

4.25-3.5" is OK
Under 30 oz is OK
Revolvers aren't OK (love 'em but not what I'm asking about)

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[plunker]

You might check out the Taurus millinium (pt111). Very light and has an external safety. I don't know about the barrel length.

www.taurususa.com

 

[Russell92]

a Glock 19 fits all the requirements except for the no double column magazines. however, because of the polymer frame even thought it has a double stack mag the grip is still relatively thin. i know many shooters with small hands that like the feel of the G19. also guns like the Sig 225 seem like they're better suited for smaller handed shooters but IMO they're not. the DA trigger reach on the 225 is much farther than that of the G19. in SA the 225 is fine for smaller handed shooters but in DA it's quite a stretch.

also the Kahr K9 or P9 would fit the bill. the P9 weights less but the K9 will recoil less so that choice is up to you.

 

[Mal H]

SIG P239.

Requirement #4 would have to checked carefully, the P239 doesn't fit everyone.

It's a standout for the most important requirement in your list, #6.

 

[treeprof]

As others have suggested, either the SIG 239 or Kahr P9 would seem to fit the bill.

 

[AndABeer]

Of the single stack nines I own, Kahr P9 included, I'd have to pick the 225. Feels really good in the hand.

Don't own one currently but P7M8?

 

[Chilidog]

Might check out CZ 75 PCR.

 

[AndrewWalkowiak]

The Kel-Tec P11 would fit the bill perfectly, except for the double-stack magazine, but the polymer grip keeps it thin.

http://www.kel-tec.com/prod01.htm

In response to your requirements:

1. Compact Size: 5.6 x 4.3" x 1" overall. A magazine finger rest is availible from the factory. See:

http://www.kel-tec.com/new_page_3.htm

2. Light weight: 14oz. unloaded, a loaded mag is 6oz.

3. Chambered in 9x19mm Luger/Parabellum. As to low recoil, it's a locked breech design, you can buy a heavier Wolf recoil spring. Also choose appropriate 9mm load to manage recoil as well.

4. Good ergonomics for small hands, is a double stack, but grip is only 1" wide.

5. Slide racking is not unusual, compared to other pistols.

6. Is reliable since bugs with low s/n's and early production have been worked out, has a reputation for accuracy for it's size. Customer service (if needed) is second to none, 1 week turnaround (shipping time included) is not uncommon. Users can talk to gunsmiths in person, and repair of user-modified guns is still done under warranty for free.

7. DAO trigger 9lbs., can be reduced.

As to not scaring the crap out of a novice shooter, ALL centerfire guns are suspect, I'd go with a .22LR. Otherwise, the Kel-Tec P11 is fine if you are introducing them for thier first try with a compact centerfire pistol in a service caliber, but have shot before.

Andrew

 

[Zak Smith]

Someone else mentioned the HK P7. This is a great pistol, but the slide is a bit harder to "rack" than more conventional semi-autos.

Here are some other suggestions, which might "bend" a requirement or two:

1. a Makarov. Very small single-stack 9x18mak. A bit of recoil, though.

2. A single-stack 1911-style in 9mm. If one isn't available off-the-shelf, a custom gunsmith could build you one.

3. A Glock 19. Ok, ok, this is a double stack. My SO has small hands (middle finger probably about 2.3" long) and she can shoot it fine, though she prefers the .40 version (model 23).

 

[Aahzz]

Allow me to voice yet another vote for the SIG 239. Wonderful little pistol!

 

[CastleBravo]

"As to not scaring the crap out of a novice shooter, ALL centerfire guns are suspect, I'd go with a .22LR."

True as far as it goes, but I'm talking degrees here. 10mm Auto scares people alot more than .45 ACP does, let alone 9x19. My 10mm Delta Elite has made experienced .45 ACP shooters flinch. Starting at .22LR is smart; going from .22LR to 10mm Auto is a non-starter.

Note that I'm not JUST looking for low recoil, though. I have that already; .40S&W out of my fat 610 6.5" is total joke recoil. The gun barely MOVES. But it is hella big and heavy; newbie shooters just LOOK at it and say "hell no"! And something a BIT more concealable would be nice.

 

[Ronin 99]

I'd say a Kahr K9 Elite. At 25 oz. recoil is minimal,trigger is smooth and it's reasonably accurate. It can also handle +P ammo all day long as it is strongly built. While I love the P7 (have two of them) I don't know if I'd break in a novice with one and it also weighs more than the specified 30 oz.
Ronin

 

[AndABeer]

Just back from the gun shop with my new purchase which just might fit your bill:

 

[RAY WOODROW 3RD]

Smith & Wesson 3913 third generation. It holds 8+1 in a single stack magazine. It is light weight and feels perfect in the hand. I have it in a DAO set up for my wife who loves it. I think they also have a 3913 lady smith out that is suposed to be better set up for a womans hand. It hasn't jammed and has resonable to light recoil.

 

[CaesarI]

1. 4.13" Barrel, much more compact than other guns with the same barrel length.

2. ~1.75lbs ~28oz.

3. 9X19mm, gas delayed blowback. Many people feel it has very light recoil because of the gas delay. If the recoil is heavy, the gun needs cleaning. The port where the gas comes into the cylinder has become clogged. A paperclip can clean it.

4. Full length grip, single stack, great for small hands.

5. The recoil spring is a little strong (because of the light slide), but one can easily learn to accomadate for it. However, you'll rarely need to use it anyway, because of the gun's design.

6. Considered by some to be the most reliable semi-automatic pistol (if clean). VERY accurate due to fixed barrel, low bore axis.

7. Recently reclassified as a SA (sorta). Operates as quickly an easily as any DA.

Many novices find this gun is very intuitive, and that they can shoot very accurately with it. It's also a notably slim gun, very easy to conceal.

In case you haven't guess already. I'm describing the Heckler and Koch P7, and P7M8. They're rather similar.

Massad Ayoob, is a strong advocate of the gun, and if I'm not mistaken, his daughter carries one, and shoots it very well.

Plus it's a beautiful, absolutely beautiful gun. In the experience of the P7BB, if the gun is recoiling hard, it's because the hole the gas bleeds into the cylinder through is clogged, and that would be the only possible reason. Ayoob also refers to it as his "orthopedic" gun. The one he gives shooters who are having trouble with the guns they brought on his course. Compare its dimensions to the others, it's VERY small. I've attached a picture of the P7 next to other guns (granted none are terribly small), but it gives you something to compare it to in terms of size. Most guns close to it's size have larger slide's and shorter (3.6") barrels.

Here's a few links for more information:

http://HKP7.com/
http://www.angelfire.com/indie/p7cult/main.html
http://www.parkcitiestactical.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi (click Cult of the P7).
http://www.arizonagunrunners.com/Products/HK/P7/p7.html

If you don't at least give the P7 a chance you're really cheating yourself and your friend. The others are FINE guns. All accurate and reliable, all worth owning, and shooting. But I feel that none meet your requirements better than the H&K P7, and P7M8.

(the P7 is a.k.a. the P7(PSP) or just the PSP).

-Morgan

 

[KPS]

Sig 239