What makes a gun a "Carbine"

[jtmckinney]

I hope this is not a stupid question but I honestly don't know. I know of several guns that say they are "carbine" but to me are very different designs such as semi-auto and lever action.

Thanks to any who might want to answer.
James

Edit: I should know better than to ask a question before I Googled it. Wikipedia answered this question. My understanding of their definition is a shortened rifle and the examples they gave made sense. Somehow I thought it had to do with the action or something about the action but now I get it.

 

[twobit]

Carbine is a short rifle. "Carbine" refers to the barrel length. Specifically if a certain gun model (for instance a Remington 760 pump) is available with different barrel lengths, the short barrel version of that model is called a "Carbine" and the long barrel version is called a rifle. I have a Remington 760 Carbine with a 18.5" barrel. The rifle of that same model has a 20" barrel. My carbine also happens to have "CARBINE" stamped on the barrel. That is not a requirement for a gun to be a carbine. Some guns will have three or four barrel lengths available. The shortest is usually called the carbine model. To muddy things up I can think of one model gun (The Winchester model 1892 lever action) That has a Trapper version (shortest barrel), A carbine version (a little longer than the trapper), and a rifle version (longer than the carbine).
The type of action of a gun has nothing to do with it being a carbine or not.

 

[SIGSHR]

The older, more traditional definition was a shorter version of a standard infantry rifle using the same action and ammunition but designed for either mounted troops or troops whose main function was to do something else. A good example is the P1853 Enfield 3 band musket for the infantry and the much shorter musketoon which was usually carried by artillerymen in case they need to defend the piece. In the Revolution dragoons-who were considered mountain infantrymen-carried a shorter version of the Brown Bess. Moving ahead, we have the Trapdoor Springfield rifle and carbine-the latter having not only a shorter barrel but also a shorter stock and no provision for a bayonet, then the Krag rifle and carbine-again, the latter could not take a bayonet. The British had something similar with their Martini action then the earlier Lee Metfords and Lee Enfields. The French had a carbine version of their Mannlicher Berthier.
Of course the M-1 Carbine is a completely different design from the M-1 Rifle
and nowadays the use of the term "carbine" is pretty much left to the manufacturers.

 

[James K]

The definition holds today, with the M4 Carbine differing from the M16 Rifle mainly in barrel length. (The military numbers guns within a series, so the RIFLE, M16 came before the CARBINE, M4 even though the rifle's number is higher.)

Usually the carbine was intended for cavalry, where its short length allowed it to be fired from horseback. Dragoons, or mounted riflemen, carried either a full size rifle or musket or one of intermediate length, but they dismounted for fighting. The Model 1903 Springfield, and similar rifles in other countries, was supposed to be a compromise to be used by all branches of the service.

The U.S. M1 Carbine was an exception to the general rule that the carbine used the same basic ammo as the rifle (with perhaps a lighter bullet to reduce recoil). But it was seen as a wartime expedient to be issued to troops who would otherwise have been armed with a pistol, such as squad leaders, field grade officers, machinegunners and BAR men, mortar crews, MP's, etc.

Jim

 

[Jim Watson]

But a Winchester collector will be quick to point out the difference between a carbine and a short rifle of the same barrel length. The carbine has distinctive sights, barrel bands, foreend, and buttplate. Often a saddle ring, but not always.

 

[Scorch]

"Carbine" tends to have whatever meaning the users want it to have. Many years back, carbines were issued to foragers, artillerymen, cavalry and others who needed to keep their hands free while they worked and had no regular need for a bayonet (the main purpose of long barrels on infantry rifles was to provide a long "pike" for assaults or repelling assaults). Carbines were slung across the back, hung from saddles, set on carriages, etc, ready for use if needed but generally out of the way. Often, thes carbines had bent bolt handles, different sights, etc, designed to make them more "carry-friendly".

And there are many, many instances of short-barreled rifles that are not "carbines".

 

[BlueTrain]

At one time some cavalrymen armed of course with carbines were called "caribiniers," in various spellings and the Italian national police are even so styled. But just to entertain us in these latter days, there were also mounted infantry who carried rifles but no swords.

My son informs me that in Iraq, where he recently vacationed, that since most troops seem to have M4 carbines any more, especially if you are mounted, the old M16 is sometimes called a "musket," because it's longer. Soldier humor, I guess. Some of the Winchester rifles intended for military use were also called muskets for some reason.

 

[thesheepdog]

18.5 barrel or less

 

[briandg]

in some cases, it means scaled down in other ways, not just short barrel.

Perfect example is that the M1 carbine is still based on the Garand, but an entirely different rifle of a much smaller scale.

Lots of models that have a "carbine" variant do more than shorten the barrel, they trim wood, lighten the barrel, and do other things to make the rifle lighter and easier to handle.

 

[knight0334]

There is no set length for a gun to be a carbine. A carbine is just a shorter length version of a longer rifle.

 

[oneoldsap]

I've always thought of a Carbine as a shoulder fire arm with a rifled barrel that is no more than 40" long overall . So I guess a Bullpup with a 22" barrel could qualify as a Carbine !

 

[gak]

As others have stated, it all depends on the gun and is relative (often) within the general model range to which it belongs. Both the Winchester 94/1894 and 92/1892 with 20" round barrel (usually with full mag tube and twin barrel bands) is considered the "carbine" of the model lineup. Shorter (usually by 4" (or more optional back in the day) = trapper or "baby carbine" in days of yore. Longer = rifle. Same (20") length but octagonal barrel with rifle buttstock and wood forend = short rifle. Custom 'tweener lengths like 18" based on the 20" carbines are still considered carbines or shortened carbines. In keeping with proportional thinking, the similar but larger 1886 Win's carbine was 22". ...and so it goes.

Meanwhile, the M-1 carbine (and a lot of modern-day "pistol round" short-barreled rifles) bust the old "short version of a longer rifle" rule (of thumb)--they are their own designs without larger/longer parents....at least not with sufficient DNA matches to consider them that related to larger guns. Some of these may not be formally labeled carbines by the manufacturer, but for all practical purposes are and are commonly referred to as such by users.

 

[44 AMP]

There is no set length of barrel that makes a rifle a carbine. Just a shorter than usual length. And, in the case of some rifles, the carbine is not the shortest barrel length.

The Mauser Kar 98k was considered a carbine, even though it has a 25" barrel, because the infantry rifle it was derived from had a 29" barrel!

In common US usage, carbine means a barrel less than 20", but that is not a hard and fast rule.

Winchester model 94 carbines are not the shortest model 94s, the "Trapper" version is. It would have been called a carbine, but the model called "carbine" predated it by quite a few years.

The US M1 Carbine is an exception to the general rule, because there is no "full size" rifle matching it. The M1 rifle (Garand) is a much different gun, with a completely different cartridge. There is some slight visual resemblance between the actions, and both have .30 caliber bores, but that's all they have in common, mechanically.

 

[aarondhgraham]

There really is no "standard" definition of the word,,,

I've seen this thread three times now,,,
It is as interesting now as it was the previous two times

I have read in one place or another all of the definitions the previous posters have stated,,,
Here is another one for the mix.

A Carbine is a short rifle that is chambered to use a cartridge originally designed for a handgun.

Is that a more definitive definition of carbine?,,,
Heck no, it is not.

It's just another definition to add to the mix,,
Another one to discuss and argue about.

.

 

[COSteve]

Carbines all share a few common traits; light weight, compact, good capacity, easy handling, and fast shooting. Here's an example of 3 different carbines demonstrating approximately 50 year jumps in technology between each model; one of the 1890's, one of the 1940's, and one of the 1990's.

Note how similar they are and that they all conform to the same general traits I mentioned above; they all weigh about 6lbs +/- empty, are about the same length, are high capacity for their day,and all are natural shooters.

 

[TX Hunter]

By old Rifle Standards, the new Full size rifles would be considered Carbines.
For Example the Mauser 98K is the Carbine version of the Gavar 98.
And the 98K has a 23" barrel.

 

[twobit]

QUOTE: A Carbine is a short rifle that is chambered to use a cartridge originally designed for a handgun.

I'm not saying that definition is wrong, but I would not apply it to my Remington 760 pump 30-06 with "Carbine" stamped on the 18.5" barrel. I dont think the 30-06 cartridge was originally designed for a handgun...at least not one I would want to fire . My 760, which I use as a short range, night hunting, hog gun has enough kick as is, shooting 180 grain rounds without it being a pistol.

 

[aarondhgraham]

Hello twobit,,,

That's why I said "There really is no "standard" definition of the word,,,"

I have heard & read so many different variations that they (if taken together) describe any short rifle or short version of a rifle ever made.

1)
carbine |ˈkärˌbīn; -ˌbēn|
noun
a light automatic rifle.
• historical a short rifle or musket used by cavalry.
ORIGIN early 17th cent.: from French carabine, from carabin ‘mounted musketeer,’ of unknown origin.

2)
a light, gas-operated semiautomatic rifle.
(formerly) a short rifle used in the cavalry.

3)
a short-barreled lightweight firearm originally used by cavalry
a light short-barreled repeating rifle that is used as a supplementary military arm or for hunting in dense brush

And that's just 3 quick dictionary definitions,,,

That's why I say there is no universally accepted definition for that word.

.