I have two 357 revolvers and I have shot them both before but never on paper, so today I went out in the sand pit to see what they would do They were both shot with two kinds of ammo in 6 shot groups at 25 yards standing, leaning over the bedrail of my truck for a brace (real scientific I know!!) there was a brezze blowing but not real bad. The Ruger service six 2 3/4" barrel would not do any better than a 12" group!!! and most were off the 8x11 target on to the box it was tacked to(high and left) My Smith&Wesson 65 4" barrel was better with consistant 4" groups real close to and on the bullseye. Both of these guns are stainless with fixed sights. I shot both 125g 357 and 158g 38sp in both guns. Is 4" groups the best I should expect? as a side note, with the same conditions my old Ruger mark1 22 with a 6" barrel shot 2 1/2" groups into the same target today as well, so the wind was not that strong. as another side note I think the service six is for sale!!!!
What kind of groups to expect from 357?
- Thread starter oldcars
- Start date
Well any short barrel revolver is gonna be harder to make groups with because of the short sight radius. I bet that if it was clamped in a vise it would shoot as good a groups as a 4 inch or even 6 inch barrel gun, unless there is something obviously wrong with it. Might try it with a target a little closer and see how it does. The better you can see the target, the better you can shoot. Or it might not like the ammo. Maybe it is the recoil affecting you. Try some regular 38's in it and see how that does. More practice with the short barrel could result in better groups. Get good at maybe 15 yards and then try 25.
If you reload, I would work on loads for them. My brother has a snub nose Smith model 19 that shoots under an inch from bags at 25 yds. It's the best shooting Smith I've ever held and would like to find one just like it. I think if you work on handloads you can dial them in.
FALshootist
New member
Tight ones
The best you can expect from a .357 at 25 yards is a group under 2", but that assumes the shooter is doing his part.
Firing a M65 with 4" groups at 25 yards is average shooting by the operator. The gun itself can and should do better. If you are trying to find the gun's accuracy, you should be shooting single-action.
The Ruger, with it's shorter barrel, will be more challenging. With a short sight radius, minor sight-alignment errors are magnified at the target end. If you misalign the sights on your M65 and bullet impact is 1" off-center then a 2" (or 2.5") barrel with the same alignment error might be of 2" to 3". But you should certainly be able to hit better than a 12" diameter shotgun spread.
Fire the Ruger single action to determine accuracy. Use an orange aiming sticky-dot if needed. I'd start with the 158gr ammo as a baseline. Use the same sight-picture every time for 3-5 rounds (don't adjust due to bullet impact). See if you end up with a 2"-4" group on the target. Try a different load (125gr .357) and repeat. Note the difference in point of impact.
Once done, you'll know where each load shoots L/R, Hi/Lo, etc. The hard part is then determining if the offset from point-of-aim is the shooter's fault or the gun's fault. Have a shooting buddy who is very good repeat the test. If he fires more accurately, examine your shooting techniques to see where you can improve.
Firing a M65 with 4" groups at 25 yards is average shooting by the operator. The gun itself can and should do better. If you are trying to find the gun's accuracy, you should be shooting single-action.
The Ruger, with it's shorter barrel, will be more challenging. With a short sight radius, minor sight-alignment errors are magnified at the target end. If you misalign the sights on your M65 and bullet impact is 1" off-center then a 2" (or 2.5") barrel with the same alignment error might be of 2" to 3". But you should certainly be able to hit better than a 12" diameter shotgun spread.
Fire the Ruger single action to determine accuracy. Use an orange aiming sticky-dot if needed. I'd start with the 158gr ammo as a baseline. Use the same sight-picture every time for 3-5 rounds (don't adjust due to bullet impact). See if you end up with a 2"-4" group on the target. Try a different load (125gr .357) and repeat. Note the difference in point of impact.
Once done, you'll know where each load shoots L/R, Hi/Lo, etc. The hard part is then determining if the offset from point-of-aim is the shooter's fault or the gun's fault. Have a shooting buddy who is very good repeat the test. If he fires more accurately, examine your shooting techniques to see where you can improve.
All shooting was done single action, and between the two rounds, the point of impact changed but the group size stayed similar. I had a decent rest (6000 lb truck) and I shot quite a few groups. The Smith was consistant but the Ruger was not; sometimes high, sometimes low, and always to the left.It wans't like there was a close group of 4 with a couple of flyers, there was 6 shots randomly in about a 12"tall by 7" wide area, every group!!
Shooting left (and all over the place) could indicate that you are jerking of the shots.
Maybe a trigger job will cure that? How does the triggers on the two guns compare?
If you can produce 4” groups with one of them you should be able to do pretty much the same with the other. It may take a little more practise with the shorter barrel.
Maybe a trigger job will cure that? How does the triggers on the two guns compare?
If you can produce 4” groups with one of them you should be able to do pretty much the same with the other. It may take a little more practise with the shorter barrel.
The Rugers have a much better rep than that for accuracy. Maybe there is something wrong. Oversized bore(not likely) possible-damage to muzzle crown, damage to bore or wear from cleaning, lead buildup inside the bore, cylinder indexing bad so that the bullets don't go square into the barrel, bulge in barrel from stuck bullet. Maybe let someone else try shooting it. Get rid of it if you want to. But don't consider it a typical Ruger revolver if it cannot shoot decent groups. Maybe one last try with 38 wadcutters?
CarbineCaleb
New member
I would be surprised if the actual intrinsic accuracy of either of those two guns is worse than 3" groups at 25 yards. But of course, the intrinsic accuracy is really the lower bound on what is possible in practice when handholding.
Now, the 4" groups aren't bad at all for that distance hand-held. Personally I wouldn't worry about that at all. If you can get the gun and shoot a group with it clamped so it can't move, I am sure it would tighten up more.
The 12" groups probably are coming mostly from the increased difficulty of aiming the snub-nosed revolver. Rugers generally do just as well on average as Smiths in accuracy testing. If you're worried about the snub-nose, I'd say ask someone who is real experienced with snubby shooting to have a go with it, or better yet, have it grouped from a clamped rest. The last test will tell you definitively how much of the 12" is the gun, and how much is the shooter.
Good luck and have fun with the new wheelguns!
Now, the 4" groups aren't bad at all for that distance hand-held. Personally I wouldn't worry about that at all. If you can get the gun and shoot a group with it clamped so it can't move, I am sure it would tighten up more.
The 12" groups probably are coming mostly from the increased difficulty of aiming the snub-nosed revolver. Rugers generally do just as well on average as Smiths in accuracy testing. If you're worried about the snub-nose, I'd say ask someone who is real experienced with snubby shooting to have a go with it, or better yet, have it grouped from a clamped rest. The last test will tell you definitively how much of the 12" is the gun, and how much is the shooter.
Good luck and have fun with the new wheelguns!
YOU NEED PRACTICE !!!
Any 2 1/2" revolver will be a little more difficult to shoot, but when you have practiced with it the group size should come down, and the time spent with the short barrel gun will make you a better shot with your 4" gun as well.
Shooting handguns requires a certain degree of skill and competance, using a good, consistant grip and practice.
Mark
Any 2 1/2" revolver will be a little more difficult to shoot, but when you have practiced with it the group size should come down, and the time spent with the short barrel gun will make you a better shot with your 4" gun as well.
Shooting handguns requires a certain degree of skill and competance, using a good, consistant grip and practice.
Mark
James A. Mullins
New member
sawbones has it right. Try it at 15 & 21 feet. Stubbies are a up close an personal gun. Use a two hand hold and after checking from the bench practice..Practice...practice.
James
James
oldbillthundercheif
Moderator
I toss shots left with revolvers when I develop a case of "the claw". Try balancing a small coin on top of the pistol while you dry-fire. If you don't have a smooth, straight stroke of the trigger, the coin will tell you by falling off.
I have problems with DA triggers, but problems can come up with more friendly trigger options as well. Make sure your technique is sound before you do anything to the pistols.
I have problems with DA triggers, but problems can come up with more friendly trigger options as well. Make sure your technique is sound before you do anything to the pistols.
I don't think its the fact that its a snub nose, I had a S&W 637 with a 1 7/8" barrel and I could hit almost as well with that as my 65!! ( inside of 50 yards) and the Ruger feels alot better than the little J frame did. I'm not saying I'm a good shot, but I know I can do better than 12" groups especially with a rest.