what kind of groups can be shot with these smoke poles???

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Magnum Wheel Man

New member
sorry I've had so many questions lately...

in one of my other posts I talked about practicing 1st & foremost... but if I were trying to shoot 5 or 10 shot groups, at say 50 or 100 meters, & I've tried different charges & worked my way to the most consistent load, using round balls... what kind of accuracy should I be able to attain...

we'll just say using the TC 50 caliber with good sights... should I expect 4 MOA??? better??? worse???

your thoughts, or what does your rifle produce with patch & ball???
 
S

Sure Shot Mc Gee

New member
Home cast patched 128gr. R/Ball size .445 .010 patch

I shoot a 45 TC and I'm happy at 100 yrds with my rifles 3" steady grouping. The load I use I consider it to be a moderate charge. I suppose if I were to drop my powder charge a littl I could see a littl better grouping. But I'm happy with my rifles 3" group. It gets the job done in the field most Fall's North of Hibbing. No doubt about that MWM.
 
M

Magnum Wheel Man

New member
I'm actually wondering if I couldn't hunt with a 50 cal round ball, instead of a 44 mag bullet in a plastic jacket... my ( virgin ) deer rifle is a Knight RB in line... I really need to get it out in the woods one of these years :eek:

I always assumed the sabots were more accurate than a patched round ball... 50 cal round balls I was shooting last weekend ( I started at 70 grains FFG Goex ... think I ended up around 65 grains ) seemed to have plenty of power, pretty flat to the 100 meter targets, & pokes a big hole in a poker card ( poker shoot side match )

I may have to look at trying patch & balls in the Knight, since I'm already set up with all the tools & components for the TC in 50???
 
M

maillemaker

New member
I shoot black powder rifles, carbines, smoothbores, and revolvers in competition in the North-South Skirmish Association.

At 50 yards, off hand, you should be able to consistently hit a 4" circle with any rifled long arm. From a bench, you should make clover-leaf holes in the paper.

At 100 yards, off hand, you should be able to consistently hit a 2 liter bottle.

Steve
 
4

4V50 Gary

Staff
Ned Roberts The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle addresses this issue and has illustrations of targets. You'll be surprised how accurate they can be.
 
M

Magnum Wheel Man

New member
thanks for the replies guys... did you find the "average" gun capable of those kinds of groups??? did you have futz with the grains of powder to get tighter groups, or do you feel it's more the tight fit of the ball & patch or the consistent weight of the balls ( weigh them ??? ) & or loading routine???

or all of the above???
 
H

hartcreek

Moderator
It also depends on your smoke pole and what loading you use or can use. For me it is an old school Thompson Center .50 in 1: 66 and I use 140 grains of FFG. The previous owner worked it up and I worked it up and that is what my specific Thompson takes to consistantly hih a dinner plate from 100m usin the original sites. Now if I was to go to a globe and ladder I could streatch the distance a bit.
 
M

Magnum Wheel Man

New member
WOW... that's awesome... mine does have a set trigger... & it's extremely crisp & light...

I've heard barrel life can be relatively short... shooting at these shoots, shooting more than 50 rounds, plus getting prepared for the shoot, could almost figure 100 rounds a year... been hearing numbers as low as 800 on barrel life... this rifle could have been at half life or more before FIL passed... means I might already be at that point, or could be in the next 3-4 years...

do they sell replacement barrels, or only blanks that need machined to fit...

I assume if I've tried everything, & can't get down to at least 2-3" groups at 100 meters I may be needing to look at a replacement barrel...
 
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mehavey

New member
You will never wear out a patched ball barrel in your lifetime
It will literally just polish itself. ;)




Where did you hear "800 rnds?"
 
M

Magnum Wheel Man

New member
sticks in my head... not sure where I heard that...

my local builder buddy & I talked about the "shorter ML barrel life" earlier today... possible thoughts were the steels used in the barrels... I don't think anyone is using 4140 or the normal cartridge steels used for barrels... would think a lube patched ball would be pretty easy on barrel life, but maybe the brass jags or ???
 
K

kwhi43

New member
My old rifle I built from T/C parts in 1976. 5 shots 100 yds. This is typical for
a good barrel and load. I shot this when I was 65.

Untitled3.jpg


Typical 50 yd
 
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D

deerslayer303

New member
I shot consistent 4" groups today with my TC Hawken at 100yrds. It has a 1:48" barrel. The slower round ball twist barrels will make one ragged hole in the target as has been mentioned. I wish I could get a 1:66" or so barrel for the TC as I have NO interest in shooting Conicals.
 
B

B.L.E.

New member
014_zpsgsravm4c.jpg


I shot this at the TMLRA "frost on the cactus" spring shoot on the 50 yard men's offhand target with a TC Hawken that has a GM .36 caliber round ball barrel in it. Shooting off a bench, it's capable of one hole groups.
I have had this barrel for over 30 years now and have shot countless thousands of patched roundballs through it.

I blame short accurate barrel life mostly on wood ramrods. They embed grit that acts like a lapping compound that wears the most critical part of a barrel, the muzzle and crown. I use only a stainless steel ramrod with a muzzle guide to clean and load. I also shoot a tight fitting ball and patch. It's blow by, not patch friction that erodes barrels.

When shooting 100 yard groups, you really need to watch the wind. The bench rest guys all have wind flags down range. A mere 5 mph crosswind can drift a roundball several inches at 100 yards. Since there is no such thing as "calm" at the Brady range, the bench rest guys sight in for the most common wind condition and wait for that condition to shoot. It's one reason that Benchrest competitors get two consecutive relays to shoot a match.

Also, with iron sights, changing light conditions will move your point of impact. If it's partly cloudy and you are sighted in for bright sun, you need to hold your fire when a cloud shades you.
 
K

kwhi43

New member
You are so right. My rifle is sighted in to shoot between 1:00pm and 3:00 pm .
My 100 yd matches are shot between those times. It is surprising how many
people don't know that your gun will shoot different throughout the day. You
should only shoot your matches the time of day your gun is sighted in for. And
Sky conditions should be the same. I use 4 wind flags when shooting 100 yds.
You would be surprised that some shooters don't even know which wind flag
is the most important to watch. It isn't easy to shoot a "50" atv100 yds. or 50 yds either.
 
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