What it called

[toybox99615]

OK I was watching the tube and saw on a shooting program a timed event in which your weapon is placed inside a box on top of the bench. When the shot timer goes off you are to remove the weapon and make a hit on a steel plate. The time between the buzzer and the shot is your score.


We have a timer and a great indoor range (www.kisaorg.com) where I am a range officer. A few of us are thinking this might be an interesting event to hold on the days we do falling plates.

So does anyone know the name of this event? Maybe even some of the rules?

 

[SDC]

I don't think there IS even a name for it, but it can certainly be a fun way to spend some time. I shot in an IPSC match one time that had 3 identical boxes on a table, and after the buzzer went, you had to find your pistol and ammo (the empty pistol was in one box, all the ammo (loaded magazines/moonclips) you could use was in another box, and the third box was empty), and then you were free to engage the targets.

 

[yar]

Whenever you do a retrieve gun from box for a match you need to be careful. It's not something people practice a lot. I don't remember if it was frontsight magazine or one of the ipsc world shoot DVD's but they pointed out the hole in one of the boxes where the shooter ND'ed. This would be scarry.

Maybe having the gun unloaded at start would be better.

 

[k Squared]

Which Program Were You Watching?

Toy Box,

If you remember which program you were watching, you might be able to get more information from one of the web sites below.

I haven't been able to watch any of these shows lately (living overseas) but seem to remember a couple competitions where guns were drawn from a box to fired. Shooting USA and Shooting Gallery are probably to first places to look.

http://shootingusa.com/

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/tv/

http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/tartv.asp

http://www.downrange.tv/shootinggallery/

 

[toybox99615]

Thanks for the leads

I wish I could remember the program. It seem like no-one else here does either.

I'm a bit aprehensive also on the loaded weapon being in the box. Perhpas the suggestion of two seperate boxes might be a better idea.

 

[RickB]

I've shot a lot of competitions with box starts, but it is always a novelty, and not the normal way of things. Sometimes the gun is loaded, sometimes empty, sometimes with a mag inserted but no round in the chamber, etc. Because it is not often seen, most people don't practice it, and that unfamiliarity can lead to trouble. Unloaded is certainly safest.

 

[toybox99615]

question for you

RICkB since you have competed in a few of these events what rules would you lay out?

 

[RickB]

The events in which I competed were sanctioned by either USPSA, or IDPA. It sounds like what you saw may have been Steel Challenge, which has its own set of rules. If you have access to steel that can be "rung", without falling, you won't have to spend any time resetting the stage between shooters. If it was me, I'd have six pieces of steel, of different size/shape, at a variety of distances, none closer than eight yards. Since loading and reloading speed varies so much among the different action types, you need to have different divisions (revolver and auto, at the most basic, but it could be expanded to single action revolver, snubbies, etc.), or start everyone loaded with the same number of rounds. If the competitors are not especially savvy, then I'd go with an unloaded start, with divisions to separate the different action types. Everyone has an equal chance to get the six plates with six shots, before reloads come into play. You might limit the number of plates to five, so everyone can miss once without having to reload; you could probably run all gun types together, if you do it that way. Google "steel challenge", and you'll probably find some pics, and if you check youtube, you will probably find some video, which will show how they set up and run the individual courses of fire.

 

[toybox99615]

thanks

RickB I did check out the steel challange sites. I did not fin exactly what I was look for but the sities did get me interested in a number of other things.

 

[jmorris]

IDPA has maximum dimension rules of the pistol and magazine. So it’s common to have “box” starts at sanctioned matches. The only time I’ve seen an AD in the box was at this years Texas state idpa championship. The shot went into the berm so the shooter didn’t get DQ’ed, but had to sign the box after the match. Remember to keep your finger off the trigger, if you can’t do that I’d rather you draw from a box with the muzzle already down range than from a holster.

 

[SDC]

I've also seen an AD from a box start (the shooter was picking his Open pistol up, and "BAM"), but in IPSC, it's not a DQ unless the round strikes within 3 metres of where the shooter is standing (or it breaks the 180). Generally, I think an unloaded start would be best, especially if the shooters aren't familiar with drawing from a holster.

 

[toybox99615]

kind of a solution

OK so after considering the safety factor I decided to put the boxed pistol thing into the back of the plan for a while. Meanwhile the sites you boys referred me to got me into the steel challenge mode.

So I've proposed to our club that we do a few of the standard steel challenge stages (modified just a bit) in our indoor range. A couple of stages had to be eliminated due to the indoor range being only 25 meters long. While a couple of the stages just require a range that is much wider than ours. We would have shooters bouncing rounds off the unprotected block walls in the stop plate of the 5 TO GO stage and Smoke and Hope has width problem as well. But there are three stages that should be no problem: Showdown, Roundabout and Flying M.

Probably these will get us interested in steel challenge. Our local Seal detachment has a few boys interested in these events.

I'll post some followup once I get this set up and functioning. I'm sure the Kodiak modifications might get a laugh or two.

 

[T. O'Heir]

It called great fun.
"...not the normal way of things..." That's for sure. Mind you, with experienced shooters an unloaded gun would be safe enough. Don't think I'd want an FNG fumbling with a loaded gun though. Mind you, having a timer and a safety guy with any shooter would fix that.
"...our indoor range..." Cast bullets only, even for the SEALS. And down rage shooting to the back stop only. Cast bullet target loads will drop a steel plate with no fuss. Cast loads don't require really heavy steel plates either. That alone will save your club some money. 1/4" or 3/8" plate will do.