I really get tired of people putting *&* in a post. Why not just put S&W. It won't hurt. I don't agree with what Smith & Wesson did but that doesn't mean that you can't even mention the name. Grow up and quit acting like little children pretending something doesn't exist. Flame away.
What is the problem with just putting S&W in a post?
- Thread starter M16
- Start date
I guess for me it's sort of akin to the amish shunning someone. their name may not be uttered. and so #&* shall remain so until they have payed the price for their betrayal.
Further, Whadaya care? I dont complain about you using their Trademark initials why would you care that I dont? Now who should grow up?
[This message has been edited by Gonzo_308 (edited October 29, 2000).]
Further, Whadaya care? I dont complain about you using their Trademark initials why would you care that I dont? Now who should grow up?
[This message has been edited by Gonzo_308 (edited October 29, 2000).]
I was working in a gun store when that ridiculous agreement went down. The full impact of it on a small to midsize dealer, if adhered to, would put him out of business. I was absolutely incensed at the arrogance of a company that says, in effect, "If you wish to keep selling our product, you must stop selling what we tell you to stop selling and then conduct all of your business as follows from then on."
I really liked their guns, both pistols and revolvers; I felt betrayed. The store owner called that day to arrange for someone to come fetch their "Licensed Dealer" signage and paraphernalia, ending over a decade of mutually profitable association.
That very first night, I posted my feelings on it at GlockTalk, and edited my sig line to show that I was now a member of "Club .40 *&*", making an angry promise to myself that I'd not wear any of my clothes or hats with their logo or so much as type their name again until I could once again walk into a store with my head high and order a fine new gun from a company that dared to stand for what was right.
Since then, I've missed my favorite ball cap, not to mention one of the nicer jackets I own. I have noticed that the "S" key and the "W" key are a lot more convenient than the "*" key. Maybe it was a silly promise. Maybe a childish one. But I still can't order a new handgun from a company that I cherish.
And I still keep my promises.
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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
I really liked their guns, both pistols and revolvers; I felt betrayed. The store owner called that day to arrange for someone to come fetch their "Licensed Dealer" signage and paraphernalia, ending over a decade of mutually profitable association.
That very first night, I posted my feelings on it at GlockTalk, and edited my sig line to show that I was now a member of "Club .40 *&*", making an angry promise to myself that I'd not wear any of my clothes or hats with their logo or so much as type their name again until I could once again walk into a store with my head high and order a fine new gun from a company that dared to stand for what was right.
Since then, I've missed my favorite ball cap, not to mention one of the nicer jackets I own. I have noticed that the "S" key and the "W" key are a lot more convenient than the "*" key. Maybe it was a silly promise. Maybe a childish one. But I still can't order a new handgun from a company that I cherish.
And I still keep my promises.
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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
cuerno de chivo
Moderator
S&W, Smith and Wesson, even NEW Smith and Wessons 
.
.Walt Sherrill
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tamara:
(Snipped stuff...)
Since then, I've missed my favorite ball cap, not to mention one of the nicer jackets I own. I have noticed that the "S" key and the "W" key are a lot more convenient than the "*" key. Maybe it was a silly promise. Maybe a childish one. But I still can't order a new handgun from a company that I cherish.
And I still keep my promises.
[/quote]
Sounds like you ought to look around and see if you can't find some sew-on asterisks to put on that hat and coat -- so that you can make a point and also not be out the use of a favorite hat and coat. That would make a STRONGER statement than not wearing the S&W logo...
(Snipped stuff...)
Since then, I've missed my favorite ball cap, not to mention one of the nicer jackets I own. I have noticed that the "S" key and the "W" key are a lot more convenient than the "*" key. Maybe it was a silly promise. Maybe a childish one. But I still can't order a new handgun from a company that I cherish.
And I still keep my promises.
[/quote]
Sounds like you ought to look around and see if you can't find some sew-on asterisks to put on that hat and coat -- so that you can make a point and also not be out the use of a favorite hat and coat. That would make a STRONGER statement than not wearing the S&W logo...
Childish, perhaps.
I own one of their guns. It is of fine quality, one of the best revolvers that I have ever owned. Their automatics don't compare with the competition, IMHO.
I am unhappy with what has happened to gun owners in this country; if it had happened via the "correct" path, ie. the Congress of this country had passed laws, or there was a grass root uprising for a referendum that put the current restrictions on gun ownership, I would still be unhappy, but I could at least think to myself that it is truly the will of the people of this country.
To have a corrupt political machine twist the law, using the justice department and other governmental resources (via your and mine tax dollars) to force privately owned companies into doing what they think is right instead of working through the system, makes me very sad and unhappy. The most visable of these is the signing of the aggreement by Smith and Wesson. I can type their name and intials. I don't do so as a sign of my disrespect for them, and for a executive branch that is using immoral if not illegal methods to do what they cannot accomplish in a legal, moral method.
I will now step down from my soapbox. Sorry, I am still concerned that people who don't seem to care or understand will elect a man who has already stated that he thinks no citizen has the right/need to own a hand gun.
Casey
I own one of their guns. It is of fine quality, one of the best revolvers that I have ever owned. Their automatics don't compare with the competition, IMHO.
I am unhappy with what has happened to gun owners in this country; if it had happened via the "correct" path, ie. the Congress of this country had passed laws, or there was a grass root uprising for a referendum that put the current restrictions on gun ownership, I would still be unhappy, but I could at least think to myself that it is truly the will of the people of this country.
To have a corrupt political machine twist the law, using the justice department and other governmental resources (via your and mine tax dollars) to force privately owned companies into doing what they think is right instead of working through the system, makes me very sad and unhappy. The most visable of these is the signing of the aggreement by Smith and Wesson. I can type their name and intials. I don't do so as a sign of my disrespect for them, and for a executive branch that is using immoral if not illegal methods to do what they cannot accomplish in a legal, moral method.
I will now step down from my soapbox. Sorry, I am still concerned that people who don't seem to care or understand will elect a man who has already stated that he thinks no citizen has the right/need to own a hand gun.
Casey
Who is S&W?
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~USP
"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998
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~USP
"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998
While S&W has there share of guilt, the biggest belongs to a corrupt government
that no longer believe the American people
are a free people but here to do the bidding
of the govenment. We will "not" survive as
a free nation unless all people become very
concerned,and that means more conerned about
freedom,indivdual rights, vs. stock market,
money. Sorry to preach but greed will end
it all.
that no longer believe the American people
are a free people but here to do the bidding
of the govenment. We will "not" survive as
a free nation unless all people become very
concerned,and that means more conerned about
freedom,indivdual rights, vs. stock market,
money. Sorry to preach but greed will end
it all.
Mike Irwin
Staff
A correlary question is, what's wrong with NOT putting the initials in the post, other than it gets your undies in a wad?
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
Wow, so all you have to do to be a patriot is remove the S&W and replace it with *&*. I guess you have a different definition of a patriot than I do. The thing thats wrong with not putting the initials in the post are that there are a lot of new shooters coming on this board and I don't see any reason to confuse them. I believe Smith & Wesson committed suicide and will soon be history but that doesn't mean that they still don't exist at this time or that they never have. But for those young enough to play "lets pretend" go right ahead.
There's nothing funny at all about what Clinton and Co. have, done, what the legislative morons in CA have done, and what the intolerant man-haters continue to do. It's not humor. It's making a point.
Contrived and lame? Apply that where it belongs, to the bozos who say "the people" in 1789's 2nd Amendment really means a "National Guard" organization that didn't even exist then. The also ignore the "keep" portion of the 2nd Amendment.
I'll let 'em keep in calling it Kalifornia and all other derivations.
You may be tired of *&* showing up in print, but I DON'T think it's contrived and lame. Grrr...
Contrived and lame? Apply that where it belongs, to the bozos who say "the people" in 1789's 2nd Amendment really means a "National Guard" organization that didn't even exist then. The also ignore the "keep" portion of the 2nd Amendment.
I'll let 'em keep in calling it Kalifornia and all other derivations.
You may be tired of *&* showing up in print, but I DON'T think it's contrived and lame. Grrr...
Kentucky Rifle
New member
I keep feeling like HCI is laughing at us. Their objective was to put Smith and Wesson out of business, they couldn't do it. Now we (gun buyers) are doing it for them. I look at my old Smiths and think that they are the best revolvers ever made. I feel a little sad...or something.
Will
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Mendacity is the system we live in.
[This message has been edited by WLM (edited October 30, 2000).]
Will
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Mendacity is the system we live in.
[This message has been edited by WLM (edited October 30, 2000).]
HCI's initial purpose was to get this agreement signed by ALL companies. If *&* had not received the blowback it did, the other companies would have seen the writing on the wall. Some of them have already indicated they would have had no choice but to sign. Thus, if you still feel that *&* is a patriotic company, consider them a sacrifice. They died so that on the effective date of the agreement, it will have no effect on us. If they had lived, your favorite gunshop wouldn't be able to sell hi-caps, or any other prohibited item.
HCI may have won the battle (killing *&*) but they lost the war (getting the agreement off the ground).
HCI may have won the battle (killing *&*) but they lost the war (getting the agreement off the ground).
WalterGAII
Moderator
Because it's pornography, that's why!
M16, do you REALLY think new shooters are going to be confused? Maybe they'll think I'm talking about H&R or H&K! I see your point. I guess they'll have to catch up.
at any rate it wont be long before we can refer to the company in past tense since they will wither and die. am I happy that a company that made Great firearms is going by the wayside NOT AT ALL. but if my choices are lose one great company or all companies. the decision is easy. send a clear message that betraying the people is BAD BUSINESS and make it stick! Otherwise companies will have their bean counters do the math and see if they can sign your rights away and survive the short term wrath only to be forgiven and turn a profit later.
Questioning my patriotism because I wont use a companies intials is downright silly. Look at it this way, If my not using the initials is the worst thing that happens to you today consider yourself lucky.
at any rate it wont be long before we can refer to the company in past tense since they will wither and die. am I happy that a company that made Great firearms is going by the wayside NOT AT ALL. but if my choices are lose one great company or all companies. the decision is easy. send a clear message that betraying the people is BAD BUSINESS and make it stick! Otherwise companies will have their bean counters do the math and see if they can sign your rights away and survive the short term wrath only to be forgiven and turn a profit later.
Questioning my patriotism because I wont use a companies intials is downright silly. Look at it this way, If my not using the initials is the worst thing that happens to you today consider yourself lucky.
Mike Irwin
Staff
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WLM:
I keep feeling like HCI is laughing at us. Their objective was to put Smith and Wesson out of business, they couldn't do it. Now we (gun buyers) are doing it for them. I look at my old Smiths and think that they are the best revolvers ever made. I feel a little sad...or something.
Will
[/quote]
WLM,
Losing S&W is an acceptable loss IF the example of what will happen to a gun company that signs the agreement is recognized by other manufacturers.
S&W sold out for a promised government carrot that would keep them from starving to death. S&W's management knew damned well that gun owners weren't going to take this lying down.
But what they didn't expect is their government welfare check to bounce.
S&W's in an agreement that is now completely one sided, apparently has no way of getting out of it, and now their attempts to sell the company are going to be in the toilet because S&W's company value is dropping like a stone. All I can say to this is (with the exception of the loyal employees who are really getting shafted by this) serves them right.
Yes, it hurts me all to living hell and back, as I have quite a few S&W revolvers, and anyone who has read my posts here over the past year knows how I feel about S&W revolvers. But I'm not about to make excuses for S&W OR the government.
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited October 30, 2000).]
I keep feeling like HCI is laughing at us. Their objective was to put Smith and Wesson out of business, they couldn't do it. Now we (gun buyers) are doing it for them. I look at my old Smiths and think that they are the best revolvers ever made. I feel a little sad...or something.
Will
[/quote]
WLM,
Losing S&W is an acceptable loss IF the example of what will happen to a gun company that signs the agreement is recognized by other manufacturers.
S&W sold out for a promised government carrot that would keep them from starving to death. S&W's management knew damned well that gun owners weren't going to take this lying down.
But what they didn't expect is their government welfare check to bounce.
S&W's in an agreement that is now completely one sided, apparently has no way of getting out of it, and now their attempts to sell the company are going to be in the toilet because S&W's company value is dropping like a stone. All I can say to this is (with the exception of the loyal employees who are really getting shafted by this) serves them right.
Yes, it hurts me all to living hell and back, as I have quite a few S&W revolvers, and anyone who has read my posts here over the past year knows how I feel about S&W revolvers. But I'm not about to make excuses for S&W OR the government.
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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.
If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!
[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited October 30, 2000).]