What is it with all the crazy shooting/killing sprees?

[cslinger]

Maybe I just don't get it. Maybe I am actually more sane than I thought but what the hell drives somebody to suddenly go on a killing spree. I mean what makes you suddenly say you know what I am going to get up tomorrow, take my wife and kids out, maybe take a few co-workers out and then put a round between my own eyes before anybody can get to me. Yep that'll show em. :barf:

Jesus, maybe I just don't understand. I can understand killing in dire self defense or defense of loved ones but I just cannot imagine hurting another human being for what amount to Shi@s and giggles.

I mean can't these folks just have a bad day, come home, get drunk, fall down and move on like the rest of us? Lord I have had bad days at work and God knows there are many of folk that have Pi@#ed me off in life but about the worst thing I have ever wanted to do to them is pee on their shoes.

So what drives these folks to snap like this?

Sorry for the rant just seems like a few of these going around lately and it bugs me.

 

[TonyM1]

I know this is a general answer to a broad question, but psychopaths and sociopaths do not empathize and are disconnected from society, they only care about their own wants and desires.

 

[cslinger]

I am speaking more to the average guy who suddenly snaps, at least seemingly so, then I am of sociopaths, serial killers and the like.

I understand that some folks are just wired wrong so to speak but it is just so hard for me to understand killing a bunch of folks because you perceive your life to suck or something to that effect. I can sort of understand suicide, not for me personally, but I can at least wrap my brain around somebody wanting out. I just cannot understand said person saying I want out and I am going to take a bunch of folks with me.

 

[TonyM1]

Imo, the 'average guy' is anything but that, he has probably been harboring feelings of retribution and blaming others for his problems in life for many years before finally doing something about it.

Disclaimer: I don't play a Psychologist in real life or on tv and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.

 

[Bud Helms]

With three or four televisions in every home and two or three 24 hour news channels sniffing out "news" stories 365 days a year, Johhny's dog caught in the sewer drain gets national coverage.

 

[blume357]

I agree with Bud above... I don't things are worse than ever

that's what the news wants you to believe. the more people you pack in a tight space the more bad things happen not just because of the numbers but it's not how folks 'like' to live.

On top of that... some college co-ed takes off one morning with her boy friend for the weekend and doesn't tell anyone and fox news has the search on the afternoon TV ... with live coverage from several choppers circling the campus. If you pass gas wrong in a California resterant we'll know about it on the east coast by the time you are flushed read as a beet.

Seems the only time I watch the news is mid afternoon when I'm snatching a burger somewhere. TV's in every fast food joint now with the 'new's on.

As for the original 'question' ... some people are bad... mixed up... "wired wrong"... fortunately I've only met a few...

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I am speaking more to the average guy who suddenly snaps, at least seemingly so, then I am of sociopaths, serial killers and the like.

They don't suddenly snap at all. You just don't know them. Those that do have usually experienced years of abusive, rude, neglectful behavior. A person doesn't make the news for being a jerk and yelling at his wife about the cooking, but when he kills his entire family, that is another matter and you hear about it.

This is something that continues to go on and isn't new. The differences between now and 20 or 50 years ago are simply factors of population densities and news coverage.

 

[rugerdude]

There are usually signs. Use Columbine as an example.

2 kids, seemingly normal, had jobs, one had a girlfriend for a while. just your average kids and this is all that people would notice if they didn't have any real interaction with them.

However, the people who were close to them did one of 2 things:

1. Ignore the odd and scary behavior or,
2. Not recognize it for what it was.

Eric Harris was on anti-depressants and took anger management therapy. He had webpages with plans and threats that got him into trouble with police. Both boys made explosives regularly, they made graphic videos (one was of them in Eric's basement where they both showed how their wepons fit under their trench coats and some rantings about who they wanted to kill) They made bombs behind the pizza place they worked at, and dylan once brought a home made pipe-bomb there.

Dylan was supended for putting a threatening letter in another student's locker, they were both displayed open apprecitation for nazi's. Dylan once turned in a report for school that was so graphic that the teacher refused to grade it. I can't find the actual article right now but I believe that they were caught making pipebombs by their parents and simply grounded and had the bombs taken away.

They purchased 4 guns illegally.
Dylan Klebold:
A stevens 12ga. double barrel shotgun (later had stock and barrel sawed off)
A Tec-DC9 pistol (sold to them by a friend illegally

Eric Harris:
A hi-point 995 carbine (also bought about 12 or so magazines)
A savage/springfield 12ga pump (also sawed off at stock and barrel)

The shotguns and the carbine were straw purchased for them by a friend.

They also made 101 explosive devices. From CO2 cartridges to molotov cocktails to propane tank bombs.

This just goes to show you, people usually don't snap, they just aren't noticed.

 

[FirstFreedom]

Watch the movie "Falling Down" and you may get an idea. If your life sucks, and heaps nothing but failure upon failure on you, it can drive a man to do such things. It's about some sort of twisted revenge.

 

[Wildalaska]

No explanations or excuses necessary, bottom line is just the fact that some folks are just born mean ***holes and ya always can't tell who they are.


WildthephilosopherAlaska

 

[BillCA]

Rugerdude brings up a good point, but doesn't expound on it.

I don't have a particular ax to grind on the subject, however I'm not alone in noticing how many of these people who perform mass shootings are taking or were taking anti-depressants such as Lithium, Prozac, et al. Some of these people discontinued the drugs suddenly -- against the warnings from the drug makers -- while others ended up mixing different drugs (Lithium & Prozac can cause extreme problems when mixed). Several of the post-office shootings indicated people on these types of drugs, as well as the Columbine pair. Any time I hear about a shooting spree where the shooter kills several people, then commits suicide, I suspect these drugs are involved.

Some doctors do not take the time to properly diagnose the problem and treat it with pills that will make the patient "feel good".

In any case, anyone that I know is taking any form of anti-depressants is NOT allowed to get near my firearms.

I don't understand the murder/suicide gig either. Thirty years ago, I recall something like this happening and discussing it with the family. The consensus was that the killer was "nucking futz" (just nuts). About the only way I can get a grip on this would be if the shooter had a terminal illness and decided to take out people who had stomped on him in the past.

 

[Socrates]

Cases I've scene are usually bad people, high on some sort of drug, that have little to loose. Drugs WILL make you suicidal, and, if you don't care about your life, taking someone else with you holds no problem for such folks.

Others have signs of such behavior long before, at an early age. Genetic pre-disposition, perhaps?

Overpowering jealousy, of others who are better able to cope, and have more possessions, looks, etc. then the person in question?

With 300 million people in the US, it should not come as a shock that some are born unhinged. I think man is genetically predisposed to being a predator, is he not?
Guess our brainwashing schools don't work on all the students...

Also, life is becoming far harder, and more complex then in prior times. Government tax, and regulation is becoming oppressive. We are giving up our freedoms, to lawyers writing laws in response to cases with bad facts, or
boogie men creating new, giant, government branches
that do nothing but limit our freedoms.

Traveling is now a scary experience, not knowing what the 8 dollar an hour security guard is going to steal from you when you get on an airplane.

Perhaps some of these actions are the result of low intelligence, unable to cope with the day to day stresses that face all of us, everyday? Children strike out all the time, when they are unable to cope with a situation. As they age, they develop the ability to deal with the stresses of everyday life, without resorting to violence, or, if they don't, they end up in our prison system, that teaches them to be more violent, and, distructive.

Maybe the sadest part in the original post is this line:
"I mean can't these folks just have a bad day, come home, get drunk, fall down and move on like the rest of us?"

It's so sad to me that that is normal behavior, with so many people, to let go of the stress our society causes.

Bottomline is after awhile, it stops working, and, you may end up with far worse behavior, created by a socially acceptable method of dealing with stress...

S


S

 

[stevelyn]

What is it with all the crazy shooting sprees?

Sarah Brady activating her sleeper cells?

WA is on target.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

There is a large literature on the issue. Just several points.

1. The killer feels a loss of respect in some manner. The action is to regain some.

2. In schools, a main focus seems to be bullying, homophobic insults (even if the kid is not gay). At work, it is seen as a tyrannical bullying boss, who insults you and perhaps fires or demotes you for no reason.

3. Lack of support groups or outlets in other domains that let you moderate the perceived problems in #1 or 2.

4. Demonstrated mental illness such that you can't deal with 1-3.

5. Sucidial ideation - you expect to die in the incident. Before the incident, one gets vicarious reinforcement of the outcome of your suicide. In some, where you just kill yourself, you fantasize about everyone feeling sorry that you weren't treated right by time. In the rampage killer/suicide - you fantasize about how you showed them and now they respect you for your stand against whatever.

6. Social learning from other instances. Everytime, we see one of these and replay Columbine with tones of outrage, we reinforce somebody who sees the upset and that reinforces their fantasy of the outcome if they do something similar.

 

[Edward429451]

Lack of critical thinking skills, lack of coping mechanisims, perceived lack of appropriate outlets for frustrations & stress.

Possible increased use of psychoactive drugs on a large scale. Increased oppression. Feelings of helplessness, no respect. Hardly anyone shows respect to others nowadays.

This isn't because of more media. Things are getting worse across the board. Anyone who doesn't see that needs to get out more. Maybe its hard to see for normal rational folks because its hard to rationalize irrational behaviour.

 

[Wiley]

A look at history will tell you that some people have always been twisted or evil. I agree that more media coverage makes it look more common.

 

[BillCA]

Good post Glenn. Concise and it rings true.

Seems that for most of them, except #3, it's a matter of someone being pi**ed off and (essentially) thinking, I'll show them!.

6. Social learning from other instances. Everytime, we see one of these and replay Columbine with tones of outrage, we reinforce somebody who sees the upset and that reinforces their fantasy of the outcome if they do something similar.

So, does this mean that when one of these events happens, the news media should be talking about the guy un-sympathetically? Such as describing him as unable to face his own weaknesses, failed to seek help for his problems, etc.? Having their weaknesses or failures exposed could turn off would-be copycats in similar circumstances.

 

[44 AMP]

Don't forget biology

Along with all the "social" reasons, don't forget Nature. Although we like to think (and say) other wise, there are some people who are just evil. And there are others who learn to be that way.

Even though our ideal is equality, the fact is that not everyone has the same abilties. Some people have a lower threshold than others. Stress (real or imagined) sends some people into action. Others deal with it and go on, and still others just curl up and die. And while past behavior is an indication, it is not an absolute predictor. The fact is that one just doesn't know for certain how a person will react until it actually happens.

And, consider this; it has been shown in lab expiriments and field observations that many species of mammals "go crazy", when filth, noise, and overcrowding reach certain limits. And each species seems to have different triggers. Individuals trigger at different levels, it used to be known as "running amok". Why should mankind be different?

Put too many rats in a cage, and they eat their young.

 

[chemist308]

I mean what makes you suddenly say you know what I am going to get up tomorrow, maybe take a few co-workers out and then put a round between my own eyes before anybody can get to me. Yep that'll show em.

Go to a school with a graduating class under 60, get picked on by all of them because you moved from the city and just didn't fit in. Yeah, do that for grades 3 - 12 and see how F@!%!$@% long you last. Lets say you make it through. Okay, now your social skills are shot to hell and you've got parents that belittle people who end up in therapy, so you don't get help when you end up in a severe depression. Now go to college and get a 'good' job. Move away because you're trying to get as far from where you grew up as you can--for obvious reasons. But find a job with a good company in a semi-rural area where it's nice to raise a family. Funny thing is you just don't fit in there and it seems most folks you run into went to high school and/or college together. They're all clicked up and they notice you don't fit. Here we go, it's high school all over again. All it takes now is for one or two of the influential ones to decide they don't like you--remember we used to call them bullies back in school. Well some folks will eventually break and get help. Some will be lucky enough to have people who actually understand them and can help them or get them help. Some will load up their turkey gun and blow their own heads off. And some, somewhere along the way, will say @#^$@^ this, it's time for a little payback and i ain't going to jail when i'm done....
It's a scary scenario, but it happens--I've seen it. Basically people are not evil but everyone, including you, dear reader, has evil inside. It's just a matter of keeping sane. But push anyone far enough in just the right way and they'll snap.
The problem is too many people contribute cultivating and growing this evil in others. Teachers that allow kids to get picked on, parents that allow it too (no, my kid would never do that!...), and everyday we see people in intolorable situations and either go with the crowd or do nothing. So in my opinion, as a society we bring it on ourselves.
Someone on here has a sig line that reads 'an armed society is a polite one.' I believe that to be true. Irony is, a polite society can prevent a lot of folks from going postal.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Bill - portraying the shooter sympathetically and telling us why we should feel sorry for him and focusing on the suffering of the victims probably reinforces the fantasies of the next potential shooter.

If you read some of the rampage literature, the experts cringe at the replay of Columbine with all the kids running for their lives.

Schools are very reluctant to act on bullying and in some cases are enablers of such - Columbine was said to be a particularly poisonous place in some reports.

Thus, when a potential shooter sees what was the 'bullying' class running in terror - it fuels the fire.

It's very complex but competent institutions, workplaces and schools should pay attention to this. I have little respect for media who then replay the deaths and panic over and over. The interviews with friends of the kids, ex. fellow team members, reinforces the mental story for the next one.