What if a 30-30 instead of a .223?

[Redlg155]

I was recently looking at one of the links over at AR15.com and read this article from the Washington Times.

This is one section....
Meanwhile, the hunt for the sniper continued as investigators cast a net over the region's gun community, confiscating sign-in logs from shooting ranges, tracking sales of .223-caliber weapons and knocking on gun owners' doors.
Some gun owners reported that agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms have visited numerous gun shops to review sales records and federal 4473 forms that list buyer information for every firearms sale. In some cases, the investigators made copies of documents, gun shop owners and employees said.

I'm wondering how many gun owners are sitting back and tolerating this without much thought because a .223 weapon was suspected and not their beloved hunting rifles.

Now if he used a 30-30, would this be tolerated? The tracking of sales, the taking of shooting range logs and the phone calls as well as visits to your house?

I'm sure even the police chief and mayor have a 30-30. But then they might have an AR15. I wonder..anyone knock on their door?

Good Shooting
RED

 

[biere]

I have been wondering similar things constantly.

I mostly wonder about when they figure out they need to get the pre 4473 weapons "photographed" or whatever you wish to call it. The 4473 and ccw paperwork lets them know who is a firearms type, what about someone who is not in these files?

The shooting logs from shooting ranges is of course anoying as all get out. The 4473s are what I expected but still anoying as all get out.

Will we be seeing ammo shops turning in who bought 223 ammo? Turning over records and stuff?

I know some places would most likely not do so but many would do so since they are doing it to catch the evil guy.

For now I wonder. However I also place more weight on papertrails and research and things that popup like a credit card and phone call trail for a few cases of ammo or something.

I have done nothing wrong, yet I worry about still being picked out due to legal things in my past.

To those who were paranoid, good job. To those like me who thought maybe it could be a potential problem, I see it now as a problem being misused in a very similar way to the social security number and stuff.

 

[Libertarian]

A 30-30 would not shatter as the .223 does because it is a lower velocity round. It could be a .30 caliber with sabot projectiles but no sabot material have been recovered (that we know of). If any sabot material had been recovered, I do not think the BATF would be spending so much time looking at .223 ownere. The BATF is evil but they're not stupid enough to waste time and resources persecuting owners of .223 when they should be looking elsewhere.

 

[answerguy]

I don't think the original poster was suggesting that the sniper was using a 30-30 with sabots. Just suggesting that if a 30-30 was being used that more Joe Lunchbuckets would be having calls from the ATF. And that they probably would be even more offended by that practice.

Personally I can't object to the fact that law enforcement is pulling out all the stops to try and track this moron down.

 

[Redlg155]

Just suggesting that if a 30-30 was being used that more Joe Lunchbuckets would be having calls from the ATF. And that they probably would be even more offended by that practice.

That is correct.

Personally I can't object to the fact that law enforcement is pulling out all the stops to try and track this moron down.

But at what point does this become a violation of your rights? When to say enough?

Good Shooting
RED

 

[Libertarian]

Thai won't be the first (or last) time I've mis-read a post.

If it were a 30-30, the LEAs involved in this manhunt would be in a very difficult position. As was said above, the Mayor and Chief of Police probably own them in most non-urban areas. I have no idea of how the police would go about investigating one of the most common calibers around. Probably not by going house to hous as they seem to be in DC.

 

[Chief Jones]

Red,

I've been thinking about that as well. I can understand their zeal in searching for the sniper, but I would be willing to bet that whatever weapon is being used was not purchased legally....

Woody

PS--been to the range lately?

 

[Redlg155]

PS--been to the range lately?

Ahh...not lately. I've got some ammo coming in and a SAR1 AK-47 hopefully arriving by Friday. I don't think you've seen my newest 9mm AR either. I'll PM ya soon to see if we can get something together.

Anyway..back to the topic,

I agree..definitely not purchased legally. Hopefully they catch this guy soon, yet I don't think the "freindly" LE folks will stop there now that they have established a precedent without any serious negative repercussions from the public.

Good Shooting
Red

 

[Libertarian]

Do you mean not from an FFL when you say not legal? Do you not think it could be a private sale?

 

[Chief Jones]

I meant obtained legally--even if it was private sale, it could reasonably be traced. You should keep contact info on who you sell to privately. I would imagine the rifle was stolen, etc.

Woody

 

[OJ]

I think Libertarian has the right idea. Accelerators (223 bullets in sabots in 30 caliber cases) could explain a lot. The one for the 30-30 goes out the muzzle at 3400 FPS, the 308 at 3800 FPS, and the 30-06 at 4080 FPS. My experience with the 30-30 version is that they shoot to a different point of aim but are accurate and it doesn't take long to zero the sights. They don't leave a "ballistic fingerprint" either. Sabot material can be pretty hard to find, even when the exact point of the shooting is known.

Papers I read have suggested a 223 bullet and one mentioned a finding of a 7.62 case.

OTOH, info we get is mostly from people not very informed about guns and ammo facts.