What happens when guns are outlawed.

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dutchy

New member
Sad story from Holland.
A storekeeper applied for a gun license because he was robbed multiple times, and felt another stick up was coming. Poor guy went to the police, to get a license.
What he did not know is that in Holland licenses are issued for target shooting ONLY. And to get one is lengthy process. (about 1,3 years).
This license does not allow carry, or defense. Just competitions and target practice.
So he got his case on TV. The Amsterdam channel (because that's where he lived) aired his plea a few weeks ago.

His body was flown back to his native Turkey this week.
Shot during another stick up in his shop within weeks of his appearance on TV.

At least the police promised to keep a closer watch on all? shops, for as long as it takes. What is that? 5 minutes?

When you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. And they do not ask for licenses.

Dutchy
 
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dutchy

New member
There is plenty of gun crime, assasinations galore in Amsterdam (mostly bg's killing bg's) but a legal return of fire is impossible, except by the police.
I've shot some matches against the police, 10 & 25 meters, stationary paper olympic targets.
If the police shoots at you, do not worry, if they shoot at somebody standing 3 ft away, take care of stray bullets (flyers).

At least they now seem to have discovered that they were screwed by the committee that bought them walthers P5's 25 years ago. For obvious reasons they seem to consider Glock now. Anyway, if you need them, the are somewhere else checking your speed.

I do not advocate guns for all, but at 52% income tax I think I am right to expect some service from my government, and take care of the bg's in stead of trying to screw me for more money.

I have a license. After 25 years I had to give up one gun because a limit of 5 was imposed. So bye bye Ljungmann.:barf:
 
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TimRB

New member
I think that Dutchy's purpose in making his post was to point out the irony and injustice in a tragic story that took place in his country. If so, I understand and appreciate his message. Does he really have to present a bunch of tiresome statistics now?

Tim
 
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stuckon308

New member
Well to be the devil's advocate you could always say that there are other weapons that the guy could have used. He also could start using body armor. That being said, I think that governments have the completely wrong way of looking at gun control. Guns for anyone who wants them. Making them illegal or hard to acquire just makes it easier for the jerks who have them illegally.
 
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dutchy

New member
Tim,
you are right, although I understand the question for stats.
It is a sad time for us in Holland, Hash is legal, guns are limited.
As I do not own illegal guns and do not know where they would be traded, press stories about illegal (former yugoslavia) guns state that illegal guns are times cheaper than legal guns.

Something is terribly wrong in this country.

My warning to you all is: if you are not very vigilant, this is coming your way;
Government is power and power corrupts.
 
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cuate

Moderator
When and if guns ever become illegal, I must assume that I will be a criminal in the eyes of the so called govt. So????????????
 
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rem33

Moderator
Thank you Dutchy for the imformative post.
It is interesting to hear first hand from a country that outlaws guns what is going on.

We see bumper stickers here ( USA) that say,
"when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns".
I don't believe most folks really understand how true that saying is.
 
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tony pasley

New member
You mean that the protection of the state isn't enough? London has had 3 gun crimes so far the month of Feb. 3 dead teenagers. The people are not allowed to own handguns. The Swiss on the other hand most every home has weapons and much lower gun crimes.
 
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rhgunguy

Moderator
WA,
He gave facts, at the end he had a line that could be seen as a slogan, but he is there, you aren't. You don't have to pretend to know everything.

It is a sad state of affairs in Holland. My future father in law was telling me about a buisness trip to Amsterdam. Two of his co-workers got mugged on that trip, one of whom has a CCW here in the states.

Keep passing laws, criminals will keep doing what they know how to do.
 
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Haterade

New member
I am by no means an expert on international gun laws or anything, but I can relate my own, recent personal experience.

I was in the Bahamas this weekend on a cruise. We stopped in Nasau and spent a few hours exploring. One thing I noted, of course, was that NOBODY had guns... not the customs and immigration people, not the security at the high-end jewelry stores and certainly not the police. I did, however, see a large amount of what I consider 'shady' people hawking either back-alley wares or questionable transportation. I didn't see one visible gun and I'll tell you, despite the lack of them... I SURE didn't feel safe. I don't even want to think what that 'safe' place would be like after dark. Talk about being an easy target for victimization. I didn't like Nasau.

I have no idea really what their gun laws are... only that I didn't see any... and trust me, I was looking! I assume they are outlawed since the 'guard' at the Cartier shop only had a radio and the police didn't even carry handcuffs. I think I could have picked up a pound of marijuana in an hour if I was looking, and I imagine a handgun would be just as easy to get. I didn't feel safe by any means and from talking to a lot of other "non-gun" types, I certainly wasn't alone.
 
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SIGSHR

New member
I think the UK is a good example of what happens when the government outlaws private ownership of handguns, here in the USA we can cite NYC and
Chicago.
 
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rantingredneck

New member
I used to work with a Dutch immigrant who was one of the Euro-antigunners. It blew his mind that I owned guns and hunted. We had an interesting exchange one day after 9/11 and the anthrax attacks, when Homeland Security was advising us all to stock up on plastic and duct tape. There were three of us (including the Dutchman) having a conversation about current affairs and he asked if I had bought plastic and duct tape. I said "No". He said "I have, and you should too. The government is advising that you buy it." I said, "If I need any I'll just come get yours, I have guns." He said, "That's barbaric." I said, "Yes it is, and of course I really wouldn't come get yours, but someone will."

It never crossed his mind that in the case of a basic breakdown of societal function he would be truly on his own, with no government officials to save him. It is this mindset that has infected Europe for years and has spread far and wide across the US. It is nice to know that there are some Europeans that still believe in the basic right of the individual to defend himself. It is also good to see the ultimate result if the anti's win the fight here.
 
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gunslinger555

New member
omg!!!!!!!!!!!!! that story just makes me very mad with a capital P. I'm just speechless. And about your title what if guns are outlawed then well then BLACK MARKET firearms will be very popular.
 
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Limeyfellow

New member
Its rather sad. Most of these countries never got over the disarming of the people big time as part of the denazification effort by the allies and so on.
 
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Don H

New member
From November, 2002:

The number of gun crimes has been relatively constant in the three years that the report covers (1998-2000). There have been 30 crimes with firearms committed per 100,000 inhabitants. There are huge regional variations. In Amsterdam the rate was 72 per 100,000 people, while in the rural provinces of Drenthe and Zeeland the rates were 14 and 13 respectively. The big cities have much higher crime rates than rural areas, so the higher incidence of gun crimes is no surprise.

How does this compare to America? The FBI's Uniform Crime Reports provide the answer. The UCR keeps track of gun use in three kinds of crime: murder, robbery and aggravated assault. There are 5.6 murders per 100,000 people in the US (page 19 of the linked PDF) with 63.4% involving firearms (table 2.9, page 23). Robberies run at 148.5 per 100,000 (p.32) with 42.0% involving guns (table 2.22, p.35). Aggravated assault occurs at a rate of 318.5 (p.36) with 18.3% gun use (table 2.24, p.38). This means that gun-related crime in the US runs at 124 per 100,000 people.
Click to expand...

http://qsi.cc/blog/archives/000144.html
 
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