What happens after a SD shooting?

[chris in va]

I was working at a bank last week that had recently installed a metal detector 'chamber' with a no-guns sign outside. One of the metal window frames had what looked like a bullet hole in it.

So that got me thinking. If we're involved in a SD shooting and bullets go past their intended target (hitting a building, etc), how is the damage paid for? How about cleanup of property or God forbid fluids...who does it, who gets the bill. Does it matter if the defendant is charged/convicted with a crime?

You always hear about a defensive shooting with many rounds fired, but not much about the aftermath.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Regardless of how justified the situation may be you can reasonably expect pulling the trigger to cost.

At least $10,000 in legal fees, fines, etc.
Lost time from work (a total of two weeks minimum)
At least one civil lawsuit
A lifetime of rumors, whispers, and innuendo.
At least one "adoring fan" (I mean the scary type)
At least one enemy for life


Sometimes I think it would just be easier to die

 

[B.N.Real]

Ah,ZeSpectre,that is the cost of living and well worth every penny.

 

[Trooper Tyree]

Regardless of how justified the situation may be you can reasonably expect pulling the trigger to cost.

At least $10,000 in legal fees, fines, etc.
Lost time from work (a total of two weeks minimum)
At least one civil lawsuit
A lifetime of rumors, whispers, and innuendo.
At least one "adoring fan" (I mean the scary type)
At least one enemy for life


Sometimes I think it would just be easier to die

And all that's just if they rule that it was justified. If they decided it was less than justified, there's a whole long list of hurt that I shan't bother going into.

Hopefully, if it ever comes to the stage where you have to employ a weapon, you will have a just enough cause that you won't be thinking, hmm, if I shoot them, who will have to foot the dry cleaning bill?

If you're thinking thoughts like that at a time like that you probably don't have a good enough reason to be employing your piece and it should have never left it's holster.

 

[chris in va]

Well, I now live in KY so the civil suit is not applicable.

$10,000...what? If the shoot was deemed justifiable homicide and doesn't go to trial, how are these fees applied?

I can understand the last three though, interesting.

I guess what I was asking though is what about the 'cleanup' aspect. How does that get taken care of?

 

[Hirlau]

Part of that question is easy, the other part is up for grabs , so to speak.
Clean-up: It will done by the owner of the property where the mess lies, usually. There are "Bio-Hazard " companies in most all major cities that respond at police request (billed to Department), or at owners request(paid by owner) to clean up such messes. If it's not your property, but it is your mess, then the owner may submit that bill to you.

On the shooting scenes that I worked, non-police shooting, the medical examiner removes the Body; but the clean up (after crime scene) was left to owner. Most cannot afford the Bio-Hazard company fee.

Even though the subject you shot, should have to pay, try getting the family to honor that, short of court.

This was my experience, anyway.

 

[ZeSpectre]

$10,000...what? If the shoot was deemed justifiable homicide and doesn't go to trial, how are these fees applied?

I can't say what, I can't say how, but believe me if you actually shoot someone (even if it's 100% justified) it will end up costing you a chunk o' change.

Might be some sort of related fines from other charges
Might be a bill for the cleanup (or a lawsuit to collect the money for cleanup)
Might be revenue lost from work while things are sorted out
Might be repairs to your property after someone protests/vandalizes your place
Might be replacing the firearm (yours will be taken for "investigation" of course)
Probably going to also be 200 other little things I'm not even thinking of.

The point isn't really the actual dollar amount, the point is realizing that you are making serious commitments on many levels when you defend your life.

All that said...I'll still defend my life, each and every time!

 

[hogdogs]

While I may have pistol or knife to use for SD I don't have a pot to pee in nor a window to toss it of so any bills can go in the unpaid line like my half a million it cost to fix my arm! "Suck it up... Mop it up..." Had i not been accosted in YOUR BUSINESS There would not be a mess!
Lawsuit for a "good shoot" in florida is not legal!
Brent

 

[Chuckusaret]

Regardless of how justified the situation may be you can reasonably expect pulling the trigger to cost.
At least $10,000 in legal fees, fines, etc.
Lost time from work (a total of two weeks minimum)
At least one civil lawsuit

Not in Florida, we have laws that allow us to defend ourselves. Its called the Castle Law. I also have an insurance policy that covers my lawful actions in protecting myself and my family.

Castle Law;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Not in Florida, we have laws that allow us to defend ourselves. Its called the Castle Law. I also have an insurance policy that covers my lawful actions in protecting myself and my family.

Legal justification doesn't stop you from being sued.

Right, wrong or indifferent, if you're sued you have to defend yourself and lawyers cost A LOT of money.

 

[overkill556x45]

I just wrote a paper on police use of deadly force (admittedly not the same, but similar in most respects). One case where the cop was CLEARLY in the right resulted in eight years of civil litigation. In this instance, the cop tried to talk down a nutjob wielding a double barrel shotgun. Said nutjob fired at the officer, and the officer opened fire with his AR-15 carbine--killing the nutjob DRT. The officer shot five or six times (shot until the BG went down). The family sued several times for wrongful death, arguing that since the BG was not taking his meds at the time of the shooting, it was not justified. They also argued that the multiple shots were evidence of excessive force, and that the police went into the situation with the intent to kill (as evidenced by the officer carrying an ASSAULT RIFLE GASP!).

I would bet that unless you had video/audio footage of the incident that showed beyond the shadow of a doubt that you were in the right, you would probably also get raked over the coals in civil court as well.

 

[chris in va]

Legal justification doesn't stop you from being sued

As I understand things, a state with 'castle doctrine' will not allow it to go to civil court if it's deemed a 'justifiable homicide'. But educate me if I'm wrong.

 

[SigfanTN]

Here is the part of the Tennessee version which specifies the civil liability:

http://state.tn.us/sos/acts/105/pub/pc0210.pdf

SECTION 3. Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 39, Chapter 11, Part 6, is amended by adding the following new § 39-11-622:

(a)

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in §§ 39-11-611-- 39-11-614, or § 29-34-201, is justified in using such force and is immune from civil liability for the use of such force, unless:

(A) The person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in § 39-11-106(21) who:

(i) Was acting in the performance of his or her official duties; and

(ii) Identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law; or

(iii) The person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer; or

(B) The force used by the person resulted in property damage to or the death or injury of an innocent bystander or other person against whom the force used was not justified.

(b) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by a person in defense of any civil action brought against such person based upon the person’s use of force if the court finds that the defendant was justified in using such force pursuant to §§ 39-11-611--- 39-11-614, or § 29-34-201.

I still am not certain if that means that a suit will make it to court or not.

Edited to add: Make sure you don't have any bullets going past your target, etc. Then it will surely cost you.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

As I understand things, a state with 'castle doctrine' will not allow it to go to civil court if it's deemed a 'justifiable homicide'. But educate me if I'm wrong.

Don't know, could be. Even so, it would only apply to areas wherein the castle doctrine applies, thereby not protecting you out on the street, one would assume.

I wonder, even if you were "protected" wouldn't you still need a lawyer to essentially tell the court that you couldn't be sued because of XYZ?

 

[OuTcAsT]

SECTION 3. Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 39, Chapter 11, Part 6, is amended by adding the following new § 39-11-622:

(a)

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in §§ 39-11-611-- 39-11-614, or § 29-34-201, is justified in using such force and is immune from civil liability for the use of such force, unless:

(A) The person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in § 39-11-106(21) who:

(i) Was acting in the performance of his or her official duties; and

(ii) Identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law; or

(iii) The person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer; or

(B) The force used by the person resulted in property damage to or the death or injury of an innocent bystander or other person against whom the force used was not justified.

(b) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by a person in defense of any civil action brought against such person based upon the person’s use of force if the court finds that the defendant was justified in using such force pursuant to §§ 39-11-611--- 39-11-614, or § 29-34-201.

I still am not certain if that means that a suit will make it to court or not.

You are correct in that Tennessee law does, in fact, protect you to some degree however, it does not stop the other party from filing suit. When they do, you will likely win in the end BUT you have to pay your lawyer UP FRONT then wait till the wrangling is over to get comped.

 

[ISC]

the odds of getting sued are much much higher if your attacker lives.

Two to the chest and one to the head. It's the drill I practice over and over and is committed to muscle memory. Dead men don't tell lies.

 

[Old Wanderer]

I know of some people (not me of course ) that in the case of SD or HD:

1. Pick up my shell casings and put them in my pocket

2. Stand quietly in the shadows, and if the police do not show up, LEAVE>

3. If in your home, resign yourself to taking out your own trash.. (far out into the desert, and use some quick lime).

Everyone of these threads I read, people are more worried about what happens after an incident. There are few laws that make it a crime not to report a crime.

The problem comes from being too law abiding. Do the minimum that the law requires...

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Old Wanderer, what you are suggesting includes illegal activities.

 

[mskdgunman]

The cops come in, BG goes to the ME's office, cops do interviews and collect evidence and present it to the States Attorney's office, the case goes to a State grand jury and they return a decision.

The same thing happens with LEO involved shootings here in FL.

A friend of mine in Lakeland was shot in the head during an armed robbery a few years ago. He got lucky in that the round just dimpled the front of his skull. He chased the BG out into the road and shot him several times as he was attempting to carjack a woman's vehicle from a stop light outside the business. Unfortunately, a couple of the rounds went through the BG and hit the woman paralyzing her. Last I heard, he was being sued by the woman but I'm not sure what the status of the law suit is. The grand jury cleared him in the whole incident. I think the BG lived...figures

 

[Bud Helms]

I think we've squeezed the last bit of usefulness out of this topic.

Closed.