What do you tell a friend...

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RodTheWrench

New member
In talking to a friend recently, he asked me to recommend a gun that he and his wife can both use for personal defense and have fun at the range with. And it needs to be concealable for when he goes out of town. And not take up too much space. And did I mention his wife needs to like to shoot it? And it needs to have a Safety, don't forget that!

I know what I think and what I want to tell him, but I want to hear from you guys first. Have YOU had this type of conversation, and what did you tell them?
 
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Jim243

New member
Along those lines, I think a Bersa Thunder 380 would be the right gun to recommend. It is not as small as others, but it does have a safety and holds 7 +1. It is very accurate and mild to shoot because of it's blow back operation and fixed barrel. It is not as light as some so recoil management is very good.

They are reliable, concealable and accurate. And do not cost an arm and a leg.

The 380 is the center pistol.


If you want to recommend something in a larger caliber Bersa also makes the newer design Thunder Ultra Compact 9, 40 or 45 Pro. The pistol on the right is the 45 Pro but the gun is basically the same for the 9 mm or 40 S&W.

You could recommend the CZ 75 compact (gun on the left), but they are more expensive and harder to find in the stores.

Good Luck and Stay Safe.
Jim
 
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whanson_wi

New member
The wife and I asked the same question. The answer was...

Four pistols: one CCW and one full size for each of us. It's not what we planned on, it's what reality turned out to be for us: a "do-everything" didn't exist.
 
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DaleA

New member
I'd like a small maneuverable car with a LOT of horsepower for quick acceleration, a fairly high top end, great gas mileage, very, very, very low maintenance, more room inside than a minivan and enough power to pull a big trailer.

I think you're looking for at least two guns here...after all, when he goes out of town what is she to use?
 
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JohnKSa

Administrator
Just be aware that if you recommend a gun to someone who doesn't know anything about guns, they will have a tendency to seize on that recommendation and run with it because they have nothing else to go on.

Anything else you tell them will likely be forgotten or ignored because it doesn't mean anything to them. Now you've given them a make and model and they're going to go put their money down because you've told them what their Excalibur is.

If you really want to help them, take them to a number of gun stores and have them both try guns off the list of firearms that you know have a good chance of being suitable. Make sure that they can both reach the controls and operate them easily.

I gave a friend a recommendation for a particular pistol as one they should go try in a local shop to see if both he and his wife could operate it. He went and bought it without his wife. I later dropped by to show them the basics of how to operate it and found that she couldn't reach the double-action trigger when holding the pistol properly.

Everything else I had told him about firearms and how to select them was wasted once he had the name of a particular pistol.
 
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Bennyfatsack

New member
Smith and Wesson 500 magnum 12" barrel, good defender! Fun at the range! Easily concealed............? Depends what you call easy, so yes this opinion is rubbish but I'd get one anyway!
 
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big al hunter

New member
If possible, take both of them to a range that rents handguns. They can handle the guns and decide what to shoot. Then after shooting the guns that fit, they can choose based on actual experience with the gun and cartridges available.
 
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Cheapshooter

New member
Your friend and his wife first need some education on guns, and shooting. Take them to the range. Let them shoot some of your guns, or rent some if that is possible at a range you can go to. Maybe the insistance of a safety can be alleviated if they learn there are many forms of a "safety" that don't involve some sort of thumb or finger operated lever. Sounds like a little more knowledge, and some confidence would be of great value before any choice is made.

1. he and his wife can both use for personal defense and have fun at the range with.
Where the Bersa mentioned, or any 380 would be OK for defense, a 9MM would be better. Also, as for the second part, range use, a 9MM would be more affordable with most 380 ACP ammo costing about a nickle per round more than good range 9MM
2. And it needs to be concealable for when he goes out of town. And did I mention his wife needs to like to shoot it?
This could be another potential problem. Is she already a shooter? Thinking the answere is no. Would the recoil of an easily concealable, sub compact, or even compact 9MM be more than what is comfortable or her?
3. And did I mention his wife needs to like to shoot it? And it needs to have a Safety, don't forget that!
All modern handgund have some form of a safety mechanism to help avoid negligent dischage. Some require an additional opperation by the shooter to be disengaged. All perform the safety function if the shooter is properly trained, and follows safe gun handling practices.

Just a few ideas to add to your thoughts. But I think the most important advice is that your friends would benefit greatly by some firearms training classes to begin with. An educated choice is always the best choice.
 
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old bear

New member
As others have suggested, have your friends rent handle several different makes and styles of handguns, all of these must be chambered in a defense caliber. Then have them shoot several that make the first cut, and go from there.
For whatever it's worth I lean to revolvers if for no other reason than ease of use.
 
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Wishoot

New member
Like others have suggested, rent a bunch before you buy. Otherwise, I would point them towards an M&P Shield.
 
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TailGator

New member
They absolutely have to handle several pistols and shoot a few that interest them. Personally I would want to have a PX4 Compact 9 mm on the list, given their criteria. The rotating barrel makes it a very soft shooter, it has the required thumb safety, and it is at least somewhat concealable. It obviously isn't the only choice but it is worth a look.
 
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jmstr

New member
Hmmm.
Everything below is obviously my understanding: not necessarily true [for anyone else].


His request for advice is a real difficult one. If he doesn't understand the difficulty, maybe you should use a car metaphor?

Like wanting a small car that is fun to drive, handles well, accelerates rapidly, has good top-end speed, gets good gas mileage, can move a 60" flat-screen tv or an overstuffed chair from the store, carries 6 people and feels right to both you and the wife for when you go to the opera as well as a ho-down at the honkey-tonk. In other words: meets ALL needs, in each situation, but with only one vehicle.

What he asked you seems like this is the type of car they would want also.

His wife liking to shoot it and it being small may be incompatible.

Generally, the smaller the gun the more it moves, which means newbies find themselves less accurate and have less fun.

Tough call.


I will only share one point of personal observation regarding what others have brought up.

I used to have a Kahr K9 [all steel compact 9mm]. Sold it when I got an M&P 9c, due to capacity. Sold Kahr due to financial needs. :(


Went shooting with dad 4 years ago or so. Shot his Walther PPK .380 as he shot my Kahr. Swapped.

I found the .380 to feel worse in my hand than the Kahr, and I attribute that to the blowback design. Whatever force the round generates in the .380, the recoil spring and cocking of the hammer are the only things to reduce the recoil impulse.

Most 9mm and above use a different locking design that tilts the barrel and absorbs some of the recoil.

I perceived the Walther .380 as more jarring, with a worse vibration imparted to my hand. YMMV.




Personally, I don't see a real need for the .380 guns much, unless looking for concealment at the beach with some of the 'micro' guns, nowadays. Price per round, stopping power and capacity are now equaled or exceeded by some 9mms. There are still smaller .380s, but I would hate to shoot them frequently: so small they don't look like fun to shoot.

Before the 1990s, there weren't many options for concealed carry guns: .25/.32 and .380 were the go-to in semi-auto designs.

Now we have the M&P Shield, Ruger LCP, Kahr K, CW, P and PM pistols, and others that are not much larger than the Bersa mentioned, and they have the 9mm round [or .40].


If your friend wants concealment BUT fun, I'd recommend something size-wise no smaller than the Bersa mentioned, but I would explain the frequent relationship between small size and more gun motion when firing, leading to worse accuracy due to more perceived recoil. This can make the smallest guns less fun.

If there is only ONE gun in their house, I'd recommend something size-wise like a Glock G19. Large enough to absorb a lot of the recoil at the range for frequent range days, able to attach a light/laser for night-stand duty, small enough to carry concealed if needed [yes, others ARE smaller].


Personally, I'd recommend both a full-sized 9mm and a compact/concealed-carry sized one: but they want ONE.

good luck!

At least my friend just wants a range gun that will be a night-stand gun and one his wife can use: no desire for her to love it or for it to be easy to conceal.
 
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cryogenic419

New member
Anybody that ever asks me what gun to get always gets the same answer...go to a store, find something that is comfortable in the hand and feels "right". If it feels good in the store, it stands a better chance of feeling good when they fire it. If it feels bad or awkward in the hand in a store, it is not going to get better when they go to the range or need to use it in a defensive situation.

Being able to shoot the gun comfortably should be top priority. Depending on what gun feels comfortable in the hand may or may not dictate caliber, but if you're aiming for something concealable generally its going to be an easier to shoot caliber. I don't really advise against any calibers for defense except .22 rimfires unless its a revolver and .25 auto. Only reason I am against rimfires for defense in semi autos is reliability. If there is a jam or misfire, that's one more thing they have to mess with, at least in a revolver they can keep pulling the trigger moving to the next round. My dislike for .25 autos is probably because there are no good SD rounds available for it and honestly its a little underpowered for what it is. If someone finds a gun that is comfy and only shoots .32 acp that is certainly better than nothing Concealing a gun isn't that hard to do if you try, I carry a Glock 20 with no issues.
 
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BigJimP

New member
The answer is - whatever fits their hands the best. I get this question a lot for some reason ...from people in my neighborhood, friends of friends, my grandson's buddies just out of college...etc...

I take them to the range ...and for new shooters I would stick with 9mm's on semi autos / and a med sized revolver in .357 Mag.....

Out of my collection, I would take:

Sig 239... ( their single stack ) - even though it has a decocker...
Sig 226 ....( full sized ) - decocker here too..
1911 4" alloy frame...(in 9mm)
1911 5" steel frame ..(in 9mm)
S&W model 66 in a 2 1/2" and a 4" ...(K frame) & some .38's and .357's...

We can mix in some guns out of the rental case that I don't own (M&P, HK, etc )....and then they can both compare and contrast what they like in terms of controls, size, weight, types of triggers, etc.....so they can both evaluate what suits them ...and evaluate his "it has to have a safety" attitude as well...because there are a lot of guns that he's not considering...

My hunch is, he has not thought thru the "safety issue" ...but that its based on "noise" he's heard...

Then we can move on to budget.../ stop by the retail side of the shop as we are leaving...
 
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RodTheWrench

New member
Thanks, guys. DaleA and Jmstr - I LOVE the car metaphor!

What I told my friend is mostly along the lines of what you've all said: Basically you can't get there from here.

We're supposed to go to the range in 2 weeks when they're up this way(live 3 hours away) so we'll see what we end up with. I've got him thinking of a fairly inexpensive 22LR-ish pistol, then something different for SD/CCW which opens up more possibilities.
 
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jmstr

New member
I am a HUGE fan of the idea of a .22lr pistol for regular range use and fun, combined with a centerfire handgun for defense.

In Utah you have a LOT of options for the .22lr handgun.

In general, I'd recommend like with like. In other words: semi-auto for both calibers or revolver for both calibers. Not mixing it up. Less adjustment of skills from main practice gun to defensive.

My group sizes shrank DRAMATICALLY once I switched to practicing with 100-200 rounds of .22lr every range trip, whether I shot a centerfire caliber or not.

It helped me overcome my severe flinch.

My wife liked the .22lr.

My friends love the .22lr.

For daily range fun, the .22lr lets you work on everything a bigger bore would, except the stronger noise and recoil: sight alignment, trigger work, grip, breathing, body posture, overcoming sideways trigger-finger twitches-and more.

I am REALLY glad the .22lr AND centerfire are the direction you seem to be moving.

Again, though: for training purposes, like with like makes the best sense.

Don't forget conversion kits for guns like 1911s, Glocks, CZs and a few others. Many, many drawbacks to them [price, ammo finicky, time to swap back/forth], but they use the SAME trigger as the self-defense gun, as it IS the same lower.

But you can buy a new gun for the same price as a conversion kit.
 
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