I've got a new Uberti 1885 .45 colt. The first time I shot it, it wouldn't extract the cases. I could point the barrel up and the cases would slide part of the way out enough to get a fingernail in the rim and pull it out. So I ordered a new extractor, my gunsmith put it in and it worked great on resized brass. I shot it with the new extractor, it would pull it out part ways, but the brass was very tight. Had to use a screwdriver at the rim to force it out. I fired about 20 rounds and all cases did the same thing. I measured the brass and most measured around .4815. I measured brass fired from my Redhawk .45 colt and it measures around .4795. The brass fired from the Uberti will not fully insert into the Redhawk. Sounds like the chamber is too big on the Uberti and the brass is over expanding. Any thoughts?
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What do you make of this?
- Thread starter AL45
- Start date
If it's tight, then the chamber has likely expanded enough to let the brass expand more than it should. When that happens, because steel has a greater elastic range than brass, the steel springs back a little further than the brass does, which results in it clamping the brass in place. The brass is then also wider than normal. Lower the loads by about 5% and see how it does. If it doesn't help, try another 5%. If that fixes it, but the loads are way below normal, you might want to contact Uberti customer service.
Am i understanding this correctly? You worked up loads in your ruger redhawk. You then got an uberti 1885 and put your redhawk loads straight into it?
Might i suggest starting from scratch and working up loads for the uberti separately?
What was your load? Bullet type, weight, powder, how much powder?
Rugers are built like tanks and then some. What is fine in it may very well not be fine in other guns.
Might i suggest starting from scratch and working up loads for the uberti separately?
What was your load? Bullet type, weight, powder, how much powder?
Rugers are built like tanks and then some. What is fine in it may very well not be fine in other guns.
Load number 1 was bullseye 11,800 cups, load no. 2 was HS-6 13,000 cups, load no. 3 was IMR 4227 14,000 cups. All loads came from the Lee manual. As you can see, very mild loads.
Other than to show that they are within the safe and accepted range, the pressure numbers are irrelevant. I say that because, even at these low and safe pressures, you are having issues.
You probably need to find the min/max chamber specs, and have a chamber cast done (correctly) to measure what size the rifle chamber actually is.
Also inspect it (and the fired brass) for any sign of roughness in the chamber. The falling block Winchester (Browning) doesn't have an ejector. The extractor is only intended to pull the case part way out, and your fingers do the rest.
If the case is sticking that's going to be a problem. This could be due to a rough chamber, or an oversize one, or possibly something else. Pressure (as given) wouldn't be the issue. HIGH pressure would be.
If still under warranty, it might be time for a return to the maker....
DO shoot some factory ammo, first, to see if the problem exists there, as well. IF it does, then its a rifle issue, and the maker needs to make it right.
good luck!
44amp, the brass was pretty scored up after finally sliding it out. I suppose it's possible that the fact that the brass slid out fairly easy when the orginal (but too short) extractor was in the gun and the fact that the brass is hard to remove with the new extractor, may indicate that the new extractor is too long and causing the brass to bind. My gunsmith is going to take a look at the chamber and extractor and fire some factory ammo to see what happens.
Sounds like a plan.
I have had something somewhat similar happen with (too) hot loads in a Contender. Extractor still raises the case a little, but the swollen brass is stuck too much to be removed with the fingers. Hooking the rim of another case under the rim and pulling gives enough "leverage" to get the fired case out.
THis is, however a case of a little too much pressure, and not at all what you are describing.
My guess is that something is binding on the fired brass, possibly, as mentioned the chamber is a tad too big, (or some part of it it) and the "overexpanded" brass sticks.
Max spec for .45 Colt case is .480" at the mouth, and straight down to the base. 0.4815" doesn't seem much bigger, but it might just be enough to cause the issue you are having.
Also possible your new extractor might need to be better fitted to the gun, and you have taken steps to see if that is needed. Good plan.
Let us know the results, please.
I have had something somewhat similar happen with (too) hot loads in a Contender. Extractor still raises the case a little, but the swollen brass is stuck too much to be removed with the fingers. Hooking the rim of another case under the rim and pulling gives enough "leverage" to get the fired case out.
THis is, however a case of a little too much pressure, and not at all what you are describing.
My guess is that something is binding on the fired brass, possibly, as mentioned the chamber is a tad too big, (or some part of it it) and the "overexpanded" brass sticks.
Max spec for .45 Colt case is .480" at the mouth, and straight down to the base. 0.4815" doesn't seem much bigger, but it might just be enough to cause the issue you are having.
Also possible your new extractor might need to be better fitted to the gun, and you have taken steps to see if that is needed. Good plan.
Let us know the results, please.
44Amp, I just thought of one more thing that could be part of the problem. The brass used in these particular loads have been reloaded 20 to 30 times. They have been fired in Ruger Blackhawks and Ruger Redhawks, but never with Ruger only loads. The primer pockets are still tight and I have been watching closely for split necks, which I toss when spotted. Is it possible that the large number of times reloaded could be causing the brass to expand more in this particular firearm? I checked the length on one of the brass in question to see if it had possibly stretched, but it was the appropriate length.
Is it possible that the large number of times reloaded could be causing the brass to expand more in this particular firearm?
First off, with the relatively low pressures you are working with, the case heads are rarely affected. The case body walls might be getting thinner due to multiple loadings, but even thinner brass which expands "easier" still needs somewhere to expand into.
based on your measurements of fired brass, your Rugers have tighter chambers than the Uberti. But a slightly larger chamber (by itself) doesn't make cases stick so you can't pull them out by hand. Something else has to be going on.
What does a loaded round do when you unload it without firing??? Fall right out of its own weight when you tilt the gun up?? Easy to pluck out with your fingers when level?
OR does it seem stiff like its dragging on something??
IF it is drag from the extractor that is the cause, it would be the same drag, fired or unfired.
Since you are already having your gunsmith work on it, I assume you're not interested in the hassle of sending it back to the factory unless there's no other repair options?
If so, having the chamber polished shouldn't hurt. Just remember that with a new gun, still under warranty, if you "fix" it the factory may "disown" it, and claim you have problems, because "you buggered it up".
There are ups and downs to repairing a new gun yourself. If it is something minor and you or your local smith that do it easily, most people will do that, since its less hassle and usually less lost time with the gun.
However, that is letting the maker off the hook for their error(s). When a new gun doesn't work properly (with factory ammo), the maker is responsible. This was the point of warranties.
The down sides of fixing it yourself are A) all costs come out of your pocket, and B) Your fix helps no one but you.
If the factory made an error on your gun, they might be making the same mistake on others. This might be because some guy had a bad day, or because some dept is passing defects on without realizing it, or other possibilities.
There is one thing for certain, no one can fix a problem they don't know exists.
However, that is letting the maker off the hook for their error(s). When a new gun doesn't work properly (with factory ammo), the maker is responsible. This was the point of warranties.
The down sides of fixing it yourself are A) all costs come out of your pocket, and B) Your fix helps no one but you.
If the factory made an error on your gun, they might be making the same mistake on others. This might be because some guy had a bad day, or because some dept is passing defects on without realizing it, or other possibilities.
There is one thing for certain, no one can fix a problem they don't know exists.
44Amp, points well taken. I just now fired 5 rounds using a light load of trail boss, 250 grain cast lead and new starline brass. I resized the new brass and then measured the length before adding primer, powder and bullet. After firing, like the older brass, the extractor would pull the brass out about 1/4" and then it was stuck. I managed to pull one out with my fingernails, but had to use a flat head screwdriver in the rim on the others. A close look at the brass revealed a slight bulge in the web area. I inspected the older brass and it also had the bulge. I resized one of the pieces of brass and you could feel a slight increase in resistance near the botton of the case. The case did resize fine.
ok, that bulge could be the key, and if so, the gun NEEDS to go back to the factory.
A bulge in a case means there is room in the chamber for it to bulge into, which means your chamber is miscut. Polishing won't be the answer, REBARRELING is. And that is something the factory needs to do, not because of its technical difficulty but because its their screw up, and THEY need to fix it.
If this were an old used rifle, it might be that some overload in the past bulged the chamber and so created the problem, but not on a new gun. The factory cut the chamber WRONG, the factory needs to fix that.
Call them and explain how your new brass is bulged, the gun is new, still under warranty, right? They should pay the shipping both ways, as well as do the repair on their dime.
Resized cases (not fired again in the bulged chamber) should be serviceable for their normal lifespan in other guns.
Repeated firing /sizing/firing in the bulged chamber will weaken the brass and probably lead to a case failure near the web. You can only overstretch these things so many times, then they fail.
A bulge in a case means there is room in the chamber for it to bulge into, which means your chamber is miscut. Polishing won't be the answer, REBARRELING is. And that is something the factory needs to do, not because of its technical difficulty but because its their screw up, and THEY need to fix it.
If this were an old used rifle, it might be that some overload in the past bulged the chamber and so created the problem, but not on a new gun. The factory cut the chamber WRONG, the factory needs to fix that.
Call them and explain how your new brass is bulged, the gun is new, still under warranty, right? They should pay the shipping both ways, as well as do the repair on their dime.
Resized cases (not fired again in the bulged chamber) should be serviceable for their normal lifespan in other guns.
Repeated firing /sizing/firing in the bulged chamber will weaken the brass and probably lead to a case failure near the web. You can only overstretch these things so many times, then they fail.
Don't know about Uberti, but most manufacturers won't warrant anything if reloads are used.
This is why I say fire some factory loads, to see if you get the same unsatisfactory results. I expect that you will, with the bulged chamber of the rifle.
The problem is, that since you fired it with reloads, the factory MIGHT claim the damage was done by your reloads, and so, its not warranty work. Some factories have done that, GLock was notorious for doing that, early on. Anything that went wrong with their gun was "because you shot reloads" and just how does one prove you didn't?? Or that your reloads were "safe" and didn't cause the damage?? There isn't one. Your word isn't enough.
Most makers won't do that, or do it rarely, when there is some proof, but, they could.
Most of us who reload do so, at least in part, for the economy of it, and it seems a needless expense to shoot factory ammo, but I would recommend, when you buy a brand new gun, that you only shoot factory ammo until you are fully satisfied the gun has no issues of any kind, then switch over to your reloads. IF the gun has only been shot with factory ammo (and it might be a good idea to record the maker and lot#s of the ammo), this may prevent the gun maker from being able to "cheap out" and claim it was your reloads that created the problem.
Ethical folks won't try to cheat you, but some prefer profit over honesty.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Not all firearms of the same caliber have chambers that are exactly the same size. I have a .22 revolver that won't accept cases fired from any other .22 firearm I own, pistol, revolver, or rifle. That just the way it is.AL45 said:I measured the brass and most measured around .4815. I measured brass fired from my Redhawk .45 colt and it measures around .4795. The brass fired from the Uberti will not fully insert into the Redhawk. Sounds like the chamber is too big on the Uberti and the brass is over expanding. Any thoughts?
SAAMI spec for .45 Colt cases is .480" - .006 ... meaning the accepted standard range is .474" to .480". But although the cases are cylindrical, the SAAMI spec for the chamber calls for a very slight taper: .4862" +.004 just ahead of (but not at) the case rim, tapering to .4800" + .004" at the case mouth. [Range 4.862 to .4902 near the head, tapering to .4800" to .4840" at the case mouth.] In other words, the Uberti chamber seems to be within SAAMI spec ... but your Redhawk chambers are tighter than SAAMI spec.
How's the finish in the chamber? Would polishing help?
Have you checked the chamber for taper? Where on your fired cases are you measuring?
AB beat me to it. That bulge is not necessarily odd. When you look at the SAAMI chamber spec, the back end near the front side of the web (0.2" forward of the back end of the head) is 0.4862", but that's a minimum, and the tolerance is +0.004", so up to 0.4902" is within spec. Obviously, at these low pressures, the head diameter won't change, but the thinner wall forward of the head sure can. More importantly, if the chamber is correctly formed, it tapers down until it gets to the mouth, which is 0.0062 narrower at the case mouth. The slight taper should mean that when the case should just fall out. Even if it got too much pressure, once broken loose, it should fall the rest of the way out.
So what is weird is it stops a quarter of an inch out of the chamber. I didn't understand that clearly when I wrote about excess pressure. This is sounding more like the chamber is misshapen in some way, like it was ringed just over the case web, and then gets slightly narrower right at the opening into the chamber (mouth). A chamber that is ringed any further forward wouldn't allow the case to budge at all, as the case walls would fill to match and lock the case in.
In your shoes, I would be using a 0.4"-0.5" half-ball small hole gauge to check diameter at the chamber at the breech end mouth and that, set to that diameter, it didn't find anyplace narrower forward of that location. Your gunsmith may do something similar. It's the only thing I can think of that might account for your symptoms, so if you find out it's something else, please let us know. How such a ring would get there is a bit of a mystery.
So what is weird is it stops a quarter of an inch out of the chamber. I didn't understand that clearly when I wrote about excess pressure. This is sounding more like the chamber is misshapen in some way, like it was ringed just over the case web, and then gets slightly narrower right at the opening into the chamber (mouth). A chamber that is ringed any further forward wouldn't allow the case to budge at all, as the case walls would fill to match and lock the case in.
In your shoes, I would be using a 0.4"-0.5" half-ball small hole gauge to check diameter at the chamber at the breech end mouth and that, set to that diameter, it didn't find anyplace narrower forward of that location. Your gunsmith may do something similar. It's the only thing I can think of that might account for your symptoms, so if you find out it's something else, please let us know. How such a ring would get there is a bit of a mystery.
I would point out a couple things, first that SAAMI specs are not holy writ, they are AMERICAN gun makers agreed on tolerances and no one if forced to comply with them.
Second, even if something is within SAAMI specs but does not work properly, its still wrong. Which means that it is possible to have a firearm the maker says does not need repair, because it is within SAAMI specs, but still does not work correctly.
That would frustrate me, and I think about any other consumer.
Best case, Uberti fixes it for free and after you get it back, it works correctly.
Worst case, it doesn't get fixed, either because "its in spec, so its not broken" or the factory disallows the warranty due to use of "reloaded ammunition".
Best case, you're good to go. Worst case, you're going to need to shell out for a new barrel and install, or have your existing one cut off, set back and rechambered.
Uberti SHOULD fix it, a "jugged" chamber in a new gun is a factory defect, no if's ands or buts about that.
Good Luck and let us know how this resolves.
Second, even if something is within SAAMI specs but does not work properly, its still wrong. Which means that it is possible to have a firearm the maker says does not need repair, because it is within SAAMI specs, but still does not work correctly.
That would frustrate me, and I think about any other consumer.
Best case, Uberti fixes it for free and after you get it back, it works correctly.
Worst case, it doesn't get fixed, either because "its in spec, so its not broken" or the factory disallows the warranty due to use of "reloaded ammunition".
Best case, you're good to go. Worst case, you're going to need to shell out for a new barrel and install, or have your existing one cut off, set back and rechambered.
Uberti SHOULD fix it, a "jugged" chamber in a new gun is a factory defect, no if's ands or buts about that.
Good Luck and let us know how this resolves.
I take it back. After that last post, I hit the shower and while the water drops banged into my thick head, I realized what the problem is. You have a burr at the chamber mouth. This could happen for a couple of reasons in a couple of ways. The most likely is the factory chamfered the entry to the chamber (you'd see this) using a dull tool or running it in too hard and fast. There are a couple of less likely scenarios, but however it happened, I am pretty sure it's what you have. When you shoot, the wall of case in front of the web forms a bulge to the diameter of the chamber forward of the burr. When you try to extract the case, the web has not expanded, so that much slides out as easily as it slid in. But when the bulge arrives at the chamber mouth, it is wider than the web and the burr, so it sticks and drags.
Your gunsmith can probably fix it by touching the chamber with a chamber reamer if his reamer matches the dimensions of the original or is wider. He could also pull the barrel and cut the burr clear on a lathe. However, since the part of the chamber we are talking about doesn't have to contain any pressurized brass, a simple tapered reamer would likely do just fine, with a light touch.
Or you could send it to the factory.
Your gunsmith can probably fix it by touching the chamber with a chamber reamer if his reamer matches the dimensions of the original or is wider. He could also pull the barrel and cut the burr clear on a lathe. However, since the part of the chamber we are talking about doesn't have to contain any pressurized brass, a simple tapered reamer would likely do just fine, with a light touch.
Or you could send it to the factory.