What do I have, and what do I need?

[tmlynch]

I love my wife's cousin. He inherited all the gun stuff in his family, and he is generously sharing things he won't use.

His dad's old-school reloading gear has come to me:
An orange press (marked with an "H" inside a "C" and "by Roddy")

RCBS Piggyback Conversion Unit

RCBS Uniflow Powder measure

Lyman electronic powder trickler

RCBS Sidewinder Case Tumbler (drum does not turn reliably)

RCBS Rotary Case Trimmer (no image, due to six image limit)

Pacific beam scale

My focus right now is on equipment After I have a good manual, then I will make decisions on powder and bullets.

I know I need dies. I am planning on Lee carbide for .357/.38 and .45 ACP.

I have some figuring to do on how to use the piggyback conversion. It looks like it turns a basic press into a multi-stage.

As noted, the tumbler doesn't reliably spin the drum, so that is likely to need replacement. How critical is this piece for getting started?

What am I missing? Any recommendations on what gaps to fill?

Thanks!
Tom Lynch

 

[Sevens]

Okay... free stuff is always good, and I hope to not temper the excitement too much, but also to be honest.

The press might be salvageable, even serviceable... but for what you get from a press (and what you need from a press!) and how much they cost, you'd be better off spending some money on a new one. That press is an open "c" design and even if it were brand new and box fresh, it's not the most rugged of designs and may want to flex on you if/when you give it some real stress... like when sizing bottle neck rifle rounds.

The piggyback unit might very well only work with the press it was designed to be placed on -- likely a Rock Chucker. I'm not familiar with all of the RCBS products over the years, so someone else will have to take up my slack. But that piece might serve you better if you put it up on Ebay. Items like that get slobbed over on Ebay and folks will often pay even more than it's worth. (something about reloading tools on Ebay is hard to understand...)

The uniflow powder measure is a good device and to buy one new right now would set you back like $75. The one you have there is showing rust so you'll have to clean it up and hope that it's not seized and/or rusted in some key places. In top shape, they are very good pieces and a key part at anyone's bench.

The electric powder trickler seems like a bit of a gimmick to me, but maybe that's just me. It's pretty much going to dribble out powder slowly as you try to bring a pan of powder up to a set level on a scale. I don't really even see the "must have" nature of the classic manual powder trickler (many handloaders swear by them) so it may very be me here... but I wouldn't have much use for that device.

The sidewinder is another expensive piece when new... it's for cleaning brass. Most folks use a vibratory cleaner... even though we call them "tumblers." The sidewinder is actually a tumbler and it's much quieter and does a terrific job of cleaning brass, though it's slow process. They are designed to be low impact and with care, they last f-o-r-e-v-e-r, but your hasn't gotten that kind of care. Again, if it were mine, I'd try to clean it up and then Ebay it, and buy a standard vibratory cleaner to clean my brass. I would expect that others might disagree with my opinion here.

The scale looks like you can still get some use out of it, assuming nothing on it is seized from the rust I can see. It's a simple device and it shouldn't be too difficult to make sure it'll work. If it doesn't work, you can pretty much replace it with most of the big name companies beam scale... most of which are all branded and painted for a company but typically made by Ohaus for all of them.

I'm not sure what became of C-H products. RCBS is an industry giant, but is now just a small company that is held by the super conglomerate of ATK. Pacific was bought many years back by Hornady, then eventually phased out. Lyman is still around and still orange.

Again, I hope not to rain on your parade, but you will be best served (mostly) by some new gear. We can help you with ideas to piece together some stuff.

 

[tmlynch]

Thanks, Sevens.

I recognize I have some cleanup to do on most of these, and that not all will be able to help me.

I think the Piggyback piece and the Uniflow will fit together. After reading the Piggyback manual, it looks like it was made to fit a Rock Chucker. Looks like I am in the market for a Rock Chucker. The worst that will happen with that is that I have a single stage press.

I don't have high (OK, any) hopes for the orange press. Maybe I can use it in some standalone activity.

The tumbler is a beast. $286 for a new one! That is worth some effort to get it to spin smoothly. The motor and drive wheels go great. I don't know why the drum doesn't get any traction. We'll see what comes of that when I am not working my way around Christmas crap in the garage.

As I understand it, my cousin-in-law's dad was more of a rifle guy, so I think the trickler was part of his "high precision" set up. I am not especially interested in it.

I'll walk softly with regard to selling or trading; these are family "heirlooms" that have been entrusted to me, and I have to respect the gift and the giver.

Thanks again!
Tom

 

[chris in va]

The beam scale is the only thing I would consider using.

 

[dlb435]

An odd collection of stuf.
Most of this will clean up just fine and work well for you.
The old C-H press is tough as nails. Clean, lube and mount it. Use it to decap and resize your brass. I've got one of these and still use it.
The side-winder should work well for you. If the motor works OK, load it up with brass and media and let it run. This tumbler unit is a bit slower than a vibritory cleaner but you own it.
The RCBS Piggyback will need to be mounted on an RCBS press. You can get the owners manual at the RCBS site. RCBS has a great warrenty and will help you get the press running. FYI, a used RCBS RC press should cost you less than $100.00 on Ebay.
Don't know anything about the powder trickler.
Have fun.

 

[PA-Joe]

Save that C-H press. If you get the RCBS press you can always use it for bullet seating and crimping.

 

[tmlynch]

An odd collection of stuf.

Definitely.

I know there are some gaps. The box for the Piggyback is marked "3 of 3", so I know some other associated RCBS gear went missing. Oh well. gift horse and all.

I looked at RC presses on eBay, and I realize I have to pay attention to shipping. Apparently, shipping cast iron is expensive.

The Sidewinder motor works well. I think I just need to learn more about how the drum sits on the drive wheels. I think I'll replace the media that was left in there, though (unless cobwebs and spider eggs are excellent for the task). Gotta be at least 10+ years old (and I wouldn't argue with 15) , just sitting bottled up in a garage.

Thanks for your help!
Tom

 

[tmlynch]

The old C-H press is tough as nails. Clean, lube and mount it. Use it to decap and resize your brass. I've got one of these and still use it.

Save that C-H press. If you get the RCBS press you can always use it for bullet seating and crimping.

I'm getting a sense that it isn't a bad thing to have a spare press. Good to know.

It seems to me that the easiest way into reloading is to be able to follow a well defined path, either with a mentor who has the whole process set up and who guides you through it, or by purchasing a manufacturer's comprehensive kit and letting their manual be your mentor.

I am in the opposite situation. Coming into this with a piecemeal set up definitely ups the uncertainty. I sure appreciate all the help I am getting from my online mentors.

Regards,
Tom

 

[Sport45]

Even if the ram has rusted to the point that it's sloppy in the bore it will still work with a universal depriming die. I wouldn't toss the C-H it unless it was locked up tight with corrosion.

 

[Fox1]

I'll second (or third or fourth) keeping the C-H press, cleaning it up and using it.

When I started reloading, my first press was an old, out of production, "C" shaped press (don't recall the manufacturer) that was given to me by a friend who was teaching me to reload. I used that press for a year with the only problem being overall case length varying from round to round on rifle cartridges, because of the flex in the press.

I purchased a new Hornady press but I still use that old press almost exclusively for reloading my pistol cartridges. I don't think you can ever have too much reloading equipment and "Free" is certainly one way to get there.

 

[lee n. field]

An orange press (marked with an "H" inside a "C" and "by Roddy")

CH is still around. This is either a reloading press, or a swaging press. With the old stuff, sometimes you have to worry about finding proprietary shell holders.

RCBS Piggyback Conversion Unit

Bolts on top of an RCBS Rock Chuck press, makes it into a progressive, of sorts. InterWebz Gunboard hearsay says functioning is somewhat iffy on these.

RCBS Uniflow Powder measure

You basic good quality powder measure. Still made. They use 2 different rotors, depending on large or small capacity charges being thrown.

Lyman electronic powder trickler

A powder trickler is for meeting out small amounts of powder directly onto the pan of a scale, for folks that need to be very, very exact. Having an electric one is overkill, IMHO.

Lyman electronic powder trickler

Cleans cases. If it doesn't work right, call RCBS.

What am I missing? Any recommendations on what gaps to fill?

Lot's of gaps.

If the press takes standard threaded dies and standard shell holders, it's good to go. You have a powder measure. If measuring for pistol you'll need the rotor with the small cavity, and the corresponding metering screw. You've got a decent scale.

You'll need a dieset, loading blocks (to keep things organized). Load data (get a book, don't count on Internet information).

Pass on using the Piggyback for the moment.

 

[wncchester]

Your treasure trove varies in age quite a bit.

CH (it's not C-H or C&H) is long gone. The name and tooling was purchased by a new firm, CH4D in the late 70s I think. The sturdy old press is from the late 50's - mid-60s and is made for current dies. It will be fine IF the ram accepts modern shell holders. IF it doesn't accept current shell holders, it should be easy to replace the old ram with a new one. Simplist would be to do a web search for CH4D and see if they can't help you get it working.

The Pacific scale is from the same general period. It was "state of the art" at the time. It will be very sensitive and very accurate but it's NOT magnetically damped so using it can be irritating. Don't fiddle with the twin nuts jammed together on the right end of the beam, all they do is balance the beam for level and it can be a PITA to get them properly reset.

That RCBS powder measure was first produced about 1960 and is still in production. The surface rust looks light so you can clean it up very well with a soft/fine wire wheel, big one or as small as a Dremel tool. Use 4/0 steel wool to clean and smooth the mating surfaces of the drum and body tho, they are honed faces and it's crucial for smooth operation that they not be damaged

The Lyman electric powder trickler is from the late 70s, early 80s. Works from viberation slowly moving powder through the tube. It worked okay but most people were too cheap to pay for a powered trickler so the electics were dropped. Trickling precision charges isn't normally done for handgun ammo, dropped charges are plenty accurate. Keep the trickler for when you get around to long gun stuff.

Tumblers are mostly for the eye candy of purty cases, nice but by no means important to reloading good ammo. Your Sidewinder tumbler has been around since about the early 70s, IIRC, and is a durable design. (The lower cost and faster working viberator tumblers have largely replaced rotaries in the market.) Your's is likely okay except for the rubber drive wheel bands. RCBS will have what ever parts you may need and they should send them to you at no charge. (NOT FREE, the original purchaser paid a bundle to obtain that "free" warrantee support! )

The Piggyback Conversion Kit comes from the 80s. It was a monstrosity cobbled together to do "progessive" reloading on the single stage Rock Chucker. It was expensive and had a reputation of being quirky so it didn't last long in the market. If you don't have the other boxes it is unlikely to be worth buying/paying for a used RC or RC II to put it on and then fighting to make it work right.

Your old RCBS case trimmer is, I think, still in production. It's as good as any other of it's type but few of us bother to trim handgun cases.

Buying much of anything for reloading on eBay these days is rarely a bargain. I used to buy a few items there, ten + years ago, but much of what's sold there now has an asking price matching (or exceeding!) what it can be bought for from an established, reliable dealer. Even much of the badly battered used stuff gets bid up to very high prices and then you have to pay a stiff shipping charge; eBay is usually not a good deal!

 

[BombthePeasants]

A suggestion for the "C" style press

How about getting a decapping die, and using it exclusively on the "C" press? I just bought a Lee Classic Turret Press, but I'm using my single-stage press for a dedicated decapping station. Doesn't require much force at all, so would be perfect on that particular press.

 

[F. Guffey]

The Piggy Back is the first model that became the Piggy Back 1 when the number 11 came out, the difference is the case activated powder drop lock out., there was a time when the #1 could be sent to RCBS to for upgraded. The advantage to the Piggy Back press is the 5 station tool head and shell holder plate, perfect for using with a lock out die.I have two complete presses. one is a #11 and the other is an upgraded #1.

The C&H press company became 4D-C&H that is located north east of Cleveland, at the time your press was made C&H was located east of Los Angles, CA. in El Monte, I think.

There is a linkage kit for the uniflow powder measure, I do not see it. There are two primer assemblies I do not see, one is for large primers, the other is for small primers, one is installed.

F. Guffey

 

[F. Guffey]

The large nut to attach the piggy back to the press is there but there is an adapter that attaches the piggy back ram to the press ram I do not see, it looks like an extended shell holder.

F. Guffey

 

[tmlynch]

I sure appreciate all the information.

Thank you!
Tom

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

There's C-frame presses, and then there's C-frame presses. This one won't flex as much as most O-frame presses, I'll wager. Look how close the ram and die hole are to the back of the C. Look at the gusset behind that. Flex? Not bloody likely.

Clean it up, and you'll have a work-horse of a single stage press, and a family heirloom to be proud of. They don't make 'em like that anymore.

Andy

 

[tmlynch]

The beam scale is the only thing I would consider using.

Thanks for your input, chris in va.

Um, which part of Virginia is Louisville, Kentucky, in?

Regards,
Tom

 

[tmlynch]

There is a linkage kit for the uniflow powder measure, I do not see it. There are two primer assemblies I do not see, one is for large primers, the other is for small primers, one is installed.

The large nut to attach the piggy back to the press is there but there is an adapter that attaches the piggy back ram to the press ram I do not see, it looks like an extended shell holder.

There are some bits in the box that I did not spread out for the photo. I'll check for the piece that connects the rams. I know there are primer tubes in there.

The whole missing-Rock-Chucker-press-to-mount-the-Piggyback-on thing raises a conundrum. The cost of an RC press (even used) approaches the cost of Lee 4-hole turret press. Decisions, decisions.

Thanks for all the help!
Tom

 

[tmlynch]

The hunt continues

Here's an update. I checked with RCBS. They say this piggyback unit will fit on a Rock Chucker, Rock Chucker II, Reloader Special 3, or Reloader Special 5 press. Now I am looking for one of these models at a reasonable price.

I've been scouting things out on eBay. An RCBS single-stage press goes for almost as much as a Lee turret press would. Shipping for a chunk of cast iron can be a significant portion of the cost, too.

Regards,
Tom