What ammo is safe?
- Thread starter barryhud
- Start date
45_Shooter
New member
Bodyguard denotes a concealed hammer, model 38, 49, 638, 649. The model number is indicated on the frame under the cylinder crane (part that supports the cylinder, so open the cylinder and you should see it.)
+P rated guns didn't come out till the mid 90's, so your gun is not +P rated. I don't worry too much about whether they are or aren't; I've got a Chiefs Special from 1961 that is somewhat valuable and desirable, and yet sees a steady diet of +P ammo with no ill effect.
Basically, in order to put enough +P through a gun in order to hurt it you'll need to fire thousands of rounds of the stuff, and your hand will probably give out first. However, it will live longer with primarily standard loads. Steel frame guns such as the 49 and 649 will probably not see enough rounds, +P or not, to wear them out. Aluminum is more likely to get shot loose, but like I said it takes a lot of rounds to do so, probably more than most can stand to shoot out of them.
+P rated guns didn't come out till the mid 90's, so your gun is not +P rated. I don't worry too much about whether they are or aren't; I've got a Chiefs Special from 1961 that is somewhat valuable and desirable, and yet sees a steady diet of +P ammo with no ill effect.
Basically, in order to put enough +P through a gun in order to hurt it you'll need to fire thousands of rounds of the stuff, and your hand will probably give out first. However, it will live longer with primarily standard loads. Steel frame guns such as the 49 and 649 will probably not see enough rounds, +P or not, to wear them out. Aluminum is more likely to get shot loose, but like I said it takes a lot of rounds to do so, probably more than most can stand to shoot out of them.
45_Shooter
New member
Most ammo has been downloaded in the past 20 years as more accurate pressure measurements and specifications became available. Much of the older ammo that was standard pressure duty ammo with the old 'copper crusher' method is considered +p today. Manufacturers took this into account when building the guns, and so most of the older weapons are just fine with +p as it is really what they were designed to handle.
In no serviceable weapon will the gun 'rupture' from the use of +P ammo. +P+ is a whole different story (maybe that's what they were referring to) as there's no SAAMI presure specifications for it and it was designed for use in .357 mags only as a way for law enforcement to avoid using 'magnum ammo'.
Ruining the timing and lockup is also unlikely, although heavier ammo will always increase wear to a certain degree.
Edward429451
Moderator
I'm curious to 45_shooters source for that info, as S&W told me no to +p for my mdl 37 j frame also.
wnycollector
New member
Very good advice!
Since I shoot my snub weekly, I am somewhat more conservative with shooting my +p carry ammo. I shoot 1 cylinder/month or ~1 box of 50/year.
davlandrum
New member
Probably was a lawyer standing behind them with a big stick
45_Shooter
New member
Police departments used to shoot +P all the time in revolvers not labeled as such. Myself and thousands of others shoot +P on a regular basis regardless of labeling.
The only weapons I am aware of that S&W has continually suggested that +P ammo not be used in is those that predate model numbering (1957); even this is optomistic as the real reason for their concern was due to the primitive heat treatment process and it's propensity for error that existed on revolvers manufactured from about the '30s and prior.
45_Shooter
New member
Aww.. I'll try and dig up some info but these posts come up here on a regular basis; one of the earlier ones might have some references.
OK, here's the last thread we had on this: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298945&highlight=+p+model+15
Last edited:
I think that 45shooter's analysis has a lot of truth to it. As for "rupturing": with +P......uh +P is WAY below proof load levels so the gun is supposed to have already stayed together through a heavier stress firing. Certainly strain near the yield point on any material can have a cumulaive deleterious effect.-Guns are supposed to survive proof testing, not 5000 rounds of proof loads.( But +P is not a proof level loading and the +P standard was set at a level where it should never cause any .38 special fit to be fired, to fail catastrophically.)
Once upon a time there were .38/44 loads, also called .38 Special High Velocity that were loaded to about 30k CUP This loading was the forerunner of the .357 Magnum ( factories were afraid to boost pressures any further for fear of damaging someone's low quality/lightly constructed .38 Special so the case was lengthened and pressures pushed to 42k-46kCUP-Those were the days!) S&W never wanted those 38/44 loads in their original J frames because they feared a shortened service life(not kabooms) but when they introduced the Chief's Special they sent one to Elmer Keith who put 500 rounds of 38/44 loads through it and said that it "could take it" and that it was still tight as new.
Once upon a time there were .38/44 loads, also called .38 Special High Velocity that were loaded to about 30k CUP This loading was the forerunner of the .357 Magnum ( factories were afraid to boost pressures any further for fear of damaging someone's low quality/lightly constructed .38 Special so the case was lengthened and pressures pushed to 42k-46kCUP-Those were the days!) S&W never wanted those 38/44 loads in their original J frames because they feared a shortened service life(not kabooms) but when they introduced the Chief's Special they sent one to Elmer Keith who put 500 rounds of 38/44 loads through it and said that it "could take it" and that it was still tight as new.
The whole issue of shooting +P has been beaten to death. If you search you will find tons of info on it.
No gunmaker is going to tell you it's okay to shoot higher than standard pressure ammo in their guns. Period. Ruger even warns against using reloaded ammo.
It will not blow up with factory +P, but shooting a lot of higher pressure ammo will wear out the gun faster.
Jim
No gunmaker is going to tell you it's okay to shoot higher than standard pressure ammo in their guns. Period. Ruger even warns against using reloaded ammo.
It will not blow up with factory +P, but shooting a lot of higher pressure ammo will wear out the gun faster.
Jim
45_Shooter
New member
My '61 flat latch M36 has approximately 1000 125 grain +P hollow points through it, in addition to whatever was put through it for the previous 40 years. Wally world was only charging $29 for a box of 100 so I bought a lot of 'em. No worse for wear than the day I bought it. In fact, the trigger is smoother now but that's about the only change.