Were many post-war PPK/PPKs manu. in Germany?

Having reread info on Wiki and a few other places, it's confusing.:confused:
Most recent production, after the French produced the 'Manurhin' was at Ranger Mfg. in Gadsden AL, then at S&W.

Of the overall used selection now in the US, were many (.32 Auto or .380) produced in Ulm Germany even After the French were in charge?

Were those produced in AL known to be approx. as reliable as previous versions in .32 Auto and .380?

With so many older S&Ws recalled, how would a handgun novice determine that a given used PPK/PPks actually Had the required repairs or factory modifications?
 

TxFlyFish

New member
I remember this came up couple years ago...has Walther broken ties with S&W yet? I assume you are looking for NIB recent manufactured one right?
 

riflemen

Moderator
I own a few ppk's and I love them all, I actually have a recalled and repaired s&w, and if you happen upon a non repaired unit, Ill bet a call to sw will get the work done for free even with a second owner...

The PPK/s is one of them guns that takes A LOT of practice to get used to, the double action first pull is a strong movement, the following pulls arent bad at all and getting used to the process wont take more than a couple range sessions and it is well worth the effort, they are cool little guns..

I had one worked by cylinder and slide its a night and day difference and worth every penny, if you are looking for a ppk then that would be IMO the grail, there was one on gun broker not long ago and they show up here and there for a decent price...

Good luck...
 

JohnKSa

Administrator
As far as I know, there were no post WWII German made Walther PPK or PPK/S pistols. Walther contracted with Manurhin to make them, or at least to make all the parts. The guns were proofed (and possibly some were assembled) in Germany which is why they had the Made in Germany markings.

The following thread has some good information.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158522

The German/Manurhin guns seem to have the best reputation.
 

carguychris

New member
JohnKSa said:
As far as I know, there were no post WWII German made Walther PPK or PPK/S pistols.
AFAIK Walther did, in fact, export some 100% German-made PP's and PPK/S's to the USA in the 1980's after their litigation finally forced Manurhin out of the PP-series business permanently. (The PPK was unlawful to import by this time.) However, the German pistols were priced several hundred dollars above the Interarms Gadsden-made guns (I have some old issues of Gun Digest that show this), they did not sell well, and longtime hearsay in the gun press says that Walther never managed to turn a consistent profit on their production. In 20/20 hindsight, ending the French production arrangement was likely ill-considered. :rolleyes:

In the early 1990's, Walther ironically decided to stop producing these pistols themselves (and losing money on it), and to subcontract production to FEG in Hungary, resulting in the slightly redesigned PPK/E. (This gun was never officially exported to the USA by Walther, but some police surplus examples have made it here on the secondary market.)
JohnKSa said:
The German/Manurhin guns seem to have the best reputation.
+1; the French and "German" guns can be considered basically equivalent.

In terms of production figures, I'm not sure how many European-made postwar guns were sold in the USA, but they were never cheap even when they were new, and collector interest keeps the supply scant and prices high.

Getting back to the U.S.-made guns...

The Gadsden plant was operated by Black Creek Manufacturing and Ranger Manufacturing, but these were both wholly-owned "paper" subsidiaries of Mid-South Industries, a still-extant U.S. industrial conglomerate that mostly manufactures auto and appliance parts. This was done because Interarms was an importer and did not want to directly enter the manufacturing business.

All stainless PP-series pistols marked Interarms were made in AL. The plant also produced a few intermittent and small runs of blued pistols while Walther and Manurhin were duking it out, and after Walther stopped producing them. These guns (along with blued S&W guns) are not as nicely finished as the European products.

The American-made Interarms guns have a mixed reputation; some work perfectly while others jam consistently. Many Walther fanatics swear that .32/7.65 caliber PP's are inherently more reliable than .380/9mm Kurz guns, but I'm not sure how scientific this assertion is, and furthermore, a large majority of the American-made examples are .380's.

IIRC when the founder of Interarms passed away in 1996, the company was heavily indebted, and his heirs were reportedly not terribly interested in running the company anyway, so they decided to declare bankruptcy and liquidate it. The PP-series license wound up with S&W in 1999 but AFAIK they did not get their own production line up and running until 2001; the pistols continued to be built in Gadsden in the interim. The S&W/Walther "divorce" will have no effect on PPK or PPK/S production; AFAIK the S&W plant in Houtlon, ME is the only place in the world where these pistols are currently being made, and Walther/Umarex will continue to produce the M&P 22 line for S&W.
Ignition Override said:
With so many older S&Ws recalled, how would a handgun novice determine that a given used PPK/PPks actually Had the required repairs or factory modifications?
One can likely call the customer service number; S&W is reportedly continuing to handle PPK and PPK/S parts and service, as they're the sole source for parts. OTOH I'm not sure whether the repaired guns are marked in any way.
 
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JohnKSa

Administrator
AFAIK Walther did, in fact, export some 100% German-made PP's and PPK/S's to the USA in the 1980's after their litigation finally forced Manurhin out of the PP-series business permanently.
I was unaware of that. Did Walther make the guns or were they made by another German manufacturer?
 

Bill DeShivs

New member
German import/export laws allow most anything that is imported into Germany to be marked "Germany," and exported. We see this in the cutlery business frequently.
 

carguychris

New member
My 1988 Gun Digest shows a Walther PP "imported from Germany by Interarms", $600 in .22LR, $680 in .32, $580 in .380. Engraved models "on request." It does not specify where precisely these were made, but I've not heard of them being made anywhere other than Ulm in 1988.

The "Walther American" PPK & PPK/S were $499 in either blue or SS, and were available in .380 only.

No German made PPK/S is shown. I think I've seen one on the Walther forum at some point, but I may have imagined it. I'll do some searching later.
 
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