Went shooting: cops showed up.

[Nightcrawler]

Today, my two friends and I planned an ubershoot. We all loaded up everything we had, and went out to the sand pit just outside of town where everybody in town goes to shoot (and have been for years). It's a great place to shoot; it's surrounded on 3 sides by steep ridges.

We had been out there for less than an hour, and my friend was just about to shoot my FAL, when a State Police cruiser came rolling back there. I stepped forward and asked what the problem was; no one owns the land, so we weren't tresspassing.

The officers seemed less than thrilled to be having to tell us this, and weren't disrespectful or overbearing in any way. But they told us that since someone living nearby or something apparently complained, they had to enforce the Michigan law that says no shooting except on DNR approved ranges or private property. They suggested getting a membership at the ONLY local range around here (which is only open in the summer) or going "farther out into the woods where it wouldn't bother anybody". We have some other ideas in mind.

I hadn't known it was technically against the law to shoot on unowned land like that. It's ridiculous, especially given the lack of available ranges around here. People have been shooting in that sand pit for decades. I, personally, have been going there for three years, and this is the first I've heard of it.

Not sure what to do. Go join the range or something.

 

[EricM]

Unowned land? Do you mean public land?

 

[Nightcrawler]

Public, unowned, whatever. It doesn't belong any any person, corporation, or group, nor is it owned by the state of MI or the US. I guess it would be public land. *shrug*

 

[Hkmp5sd]

On occasion, we load up and go out in the middle of nowhere to shoot. Especially when we want to play with our full auto toys. Frequently cops show up and they almost always ask the same question: "Can I shoot your machinegun?" I have yet had one even ask to see a copy of my Form 4.

Most low level uniforms don't like the gun control games the senior politicians in their departments play.

 

[Bud Helms]

"Public, unowned, whatever. It doesn't belong any any person, corporation, or group, nor is it owned by the state of MI or the US. I guess it would be public land. *shrug*"

I'll bet there's a statute that says something like if it's never been owned by an individual or hasn't been owned by an individual for a certain period, it reverts to state land. What if you wanted to buy it? Who pays the taxes on it? In many states, if you pay the taxes for so many years, you assume ownership.

 

[Nightcrawler]

THe fact that it's technically illegal to shoot on public land burns my butt though. It's apparently not a county statue like in someplaces, but a statewide law.

Michigan is getting old real fast.

 

[RWK]

Nightcrawler, with respect . . .

You said: "Public, unowned, whatever. It doesn't belong any any person, corporation, or group, nor is it owned by the state of MI or the US. I guess it would be public land. *shrug*"

May I respectfully ask how you know this? Have you check the land records in the county clerk's office. The fact that the land has been "dormant" for years does NOT mean it is ether public or unowned. Many people (and corporations) own property that is left unimproved for decades. It is still "private property" and no one has the right to trespass without the owner's specific permission.

 

[hksigwalther]

A friend lives in Michigan and has recently gotten into shooting. He normally shoots at a DNR range nearest to him. His biggest gripe about that range is that you can only load and shoot live rounds one cartridge at a time, even semi-autos.

 

[40ozflatfoot]

Have you researched the law that the trooper referred to? It could be that there is something tucked away in it, or perhaps a court decision based on it that would allow you to continue to shoot at that site. It sounds funny that someone would complain now, if the site has been used by lots of shooters for years.

It could also be that the trooper was acting under orders from his superiors, who were acting on some politically based decision made somewhere higher up. IOW, a politically based order instead of a legal one.

 

[WOLV314]

So who's the jerk who complained?!?

 

[freeride21a]

gee whiz that sucks, even in kali we can shoot on public land unless otherwise specified, there are a few shotgun only areas, or preserves. basically BLM land. national forrests used to be open, but bastards would fire tracers and ap and burn half the forrest down...actually they just put a temp ban on shooting in so kali NF's due to no measureable rain in years, even springs that dont dry up have dried up.

 

[The Walrus]

Out here in the NW Corner of WA state, the preferred shooting areas are logging roads... no logging goes on during the weekends, and there's lots of wooded area to practice in without fear of disturbing nearby residents.

 

[Zundfolge]

I bet someone owns the land ... the thing to do is find out who and see what it would take to buy the land.

If it is indeed a great place to shoot maybe you and your friends should see about opening a range. If there are so few ranges in the area it might be a profitable business.

 

[The Walrus]

Zund,

Even assuming the land could be had for cheap or free, and outdoor shooting facilities could be constructed in members' spare time, I think that liability insurance for a private range could be very expensive.

The quick and easy solution to that is an iron-clad, ink-signed waiver from anybody that enters the property to shoot, or view as a spectator.

 

[Futo Inu]

Every square inch of soil in the world is "owned" by someone; certainly in the US at least. If it ain't a private individual, then it's some gov't - either the state, or the feds, or a city, or a corporation, etc. Look in the county records to find out who owns it, and try to get their permission to use it. If not for free, get a license to use it at a price.

 

[Nightcrawler]

May I respectfully ask how you know this? Have you check the land records in the county clerk's office. The fact that the land has been "dormant" for years does NOT mean it is ether public or unowned. Many people (and corporations) own property that is left unimproved for decades. It is still "private property" and no one has the right to trespass without the owner's specific permission.

Believe it or not, I do understand the concept of property rights. Did I say anything in my post that could be construed to mean that I think I have a right to go on someone else's land? If I did it was unintentional.

I specifically asked the cop if the reason he was out there was because somebody had bought the sand pit and we were now trespassing. He said no. He said somebody in one of the houses didn't like the noise (the nearest house being about half a mile away) and called, and because somebody complained he had to enforce what he agreed was a stupid law. Figures. Probably a tourist, too, the locals don't care.

If anybody were to buy the land, they'd do so knowing that everyone in town goes there to shoot, drive four wheelers, and the country gets sand from there. It'd be wise for them to maybe post signs, or something, instead of not telling anybody that the land was now private and calling the cops all the time. Just a thought.

The sand pit is not something you'd want to buy. It fills in with snow in the winter, and the county road commission uses it to get sand from. In the spring it's all mud. Nothing grows in there except a few shrubs and crab grass, and it has a few crumbling remnants of mining company structures of some sort (the mining company no longer exists) on one edge. I think the county secretly dumps trash in there once in awhile. One can only imagine the crap the old mining company dumped into that soil..

Either way, it's not something I can buy. I'm a college student. I'm trying to save up for a new car, and that's difficult enough. I simply don't have funds to buy the property, get approval to build a range, build the facilities to pass all of the DNR's rules (and from what we're going through to get a house on our own 20 acres, there are a LOT of them), and I don't even know anything about zoning.

And to be honest, even if I did build a nice range there, few people would go. People can go out into the bush for free; they're not going to pay money to shoot at the sandpit that the y used to be able to go to for nothing.

Most people just shoot on their own land, or out at their camp. I can't shoot on our 20 acres, so...

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Okay, so the "cops" did not show up, but one did.

Simply stated, there is no land in the current United States that is unowned. It is either privately owned or is owned by the state or federal government - by default.

My guess is that the "jerk" who complained is one who has had trouble with shooters in the past. At a mile, the sound would not be a real issue and quite likely may not be heard indoors with the windows closed. They probably did not have the windows closed, however. One thing is certain, the sound of gun shots means somebody is shooting. If you can hear them, then you may be in danger. Given that the place to shoot is not a formal range, then who regulates the direction of fire? Do you live near the place and leave it up to chance that the shooters are going to be safe? No hardly.

 

[El Rojo]

Time to take the officers last bit of advice...find somewhere further out. There is a place I can shoot about a half mile from some people's house. Out of consideration, I just don't shoot there anymore. No one said anything, I just didn't feel comfortable shooting and making noise so close to their house. I went out a few more miles and I never see anyone and law enforcement certainly doesn't care. I tell you, if it weren't for the liberals in this state and maybe the heat, Western Kern County (PRK) is the place to live if you like to hunt and shoot.

 

[BlackRazor]

some options...

get a silencer. Or maybe shoot on your own private land. Are there rules against that in Michigan?

Either way, think about how much better things are in MI than in CA! AT least you can still own real guns!

 

[gryphon]

The sand pit is not something you'd want to buy. It fills in with snow in the winter, and the county road commission uses it to get sand from.

If this is the case, then the land probably is owned by the state or county if they are bringing trucks in and excavating earth and sand from it.

You might be able to buy the land from the gov'ment?