Weaver stance makes a good target?

[David]

In defensive mode, the weaver stance seems to be very popular. Why? Seems that standing sideways with your pistol aimed straight out your side, similar to a marksman, would give your aggressor far less of your body to shoot at. The weaver, however, gives the bad guy a complete frontal shot. Why is the weaver so recommended?

David

 

[bobo]

While not a personal fan of the weaver position I'll try to illuminate its strong
points and why it is taught to LEO's.

1. Commonality of fighting and firing position. The weaver is simular to a boxing
stance and can be used as a stable base to shoot or fight from,plus the weapon side is
away from the subject.

2. The weaver is a "bladed" position i.e.
the body is at a 45* angle to the agressor.
ideally the feet and upper body are at the same angle so when you draw your weapon
there is distance between you the BG.

3. When the weaver position is done right it is quick and fits in with a lot of other use
of force options.

 

[Mike Spight]

David:

Standing with the side of your body pointed toward an assailant also gives him an opportunity to put a round through BOTH of your lungs with one shot, assuming he's shooting a bullet/caliber combination that is a good penetrator.

Holding your weapon out to your side with one hand does not lend itself to FAST and ACCURATE shooting with a handgun. Both the Weaver and Icosoles positions do.

Bottomline, it's a postion for bullseye shooters and (in times past) duelists.

Mike

 

[Cat]

Another problem with the "Weaver" or the "Bullseye" stance is that it exposes your side/armpit if you wear body armor.
I use the "Weaver" stance. I'm just used to it and probably won't change this late in my life.
Neil Casper

 

[Mikey]

David,

You have asked a very good question regarding the appropriate "stance" for defensive shooting. The question is only problematic in the defensive competition/practice mode. The Weaver and isosceles stances allow for rapid movement from target to target and a stable two handed shooting platform. They allow flexibility, speed and accuracy from a single position and permit the shooter to move in any direction from the stance.

Stance will mean very little in a real defensive shooting scenario. IF YOU AIN'T MOVIN' (OR BEHIND COVER) YOU AIN'T WINNIN'!

If you want real practice for defensive shooting then shoot while moving or from cover 90% of the time. Also practice the stationary stances to build from, but don't count on them when the SHTF.

Mikey

 

[4V50 Gary]

Both Weaver and Isoceles stances have their place in defensive shooting.

Weaver is good for use from behind a barricaded position or when perforring a deliberate, and meticulous houseclearing. Clearing a corner, you expose less of your body using the Weaver. The problem with Weaver in an open area is that the vest generally doesn't cover the exposed side (and resultingly, the lungs are exposed).

Isoceles is a more natural body response when, as Fairbairn developed and Appelgate taught, a person is startled he'll face his body towards the threat so as to meet it. While Isoceles presents larger target (being unbladed, you will be a larger target), in part this is compensated for by taking better advantage of your vest (granted, you should seek real cover rather than risk taking a hit - even on your vest).

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

 

[James K]

Yes.

Wasting time getting into the perfect Weaver stance instead of getting into cover is a good way to not ever again get into this kind of debate.

Jim

 

[David Blinder]

For what it's worth I shoot what I call the iso-weaver which means that my feet are directly across from each other while my arms are in a weaver position (strong arm mostly straight with weak arm bent, both applying enough tension to keep everything firmly in place). This allows maximum pivot and foot movement to react in any direction to any threat but while maintaining a solid two-handed grip that I can control recoil with. For those who wear body armor, it also keeps the protected part facing the threat. The worst part of the weaver is that it makes you lose mobility (can't turn to weak side quickly) and the isosceles allows more muzzle flip. Personally, I feel the best stance is one that allows you to get off an accurate shot cause misses don't seem to count in this game either.

 

[Will Beararms]

I hope and pray I nor any of you have to be faced with a deadly force confrontation. That having been said, I tend to belive that a person will revert to what seems the most natural for them should the moment of truth rear its ugly head.

I also beleive from extensive defensive and offensive driving training that the mind and body will respond auotmatically if prior proper conditioning has taken place. That I can tell you from numerous first-hand experiences. In other words the training will become second nature.

I have had a loaded weapon trained on my face at point blank range by a perpetrator with ill intent. Though, I was unarmed at the time, I now have an idea of what to expect should the unfortunate circumstance recur.

My admonition to you would be to first, find the stance most natural to your individual physique that will allow you to effectively manipulate and discharge your weapon in the most accurate and safest manner possible. Then train and re-train so that God-forbid, your reponse will be automatic.

Possibly, practicing on a private range or an open expanse of land with safe and absolute back stops is the only way to prepare for such a circumstance. Most public ranges will not allow such activity. If you can afford it, try a Gunsite or Thunder Ranch setup. Additionally, I would advise you to shoot from inside your personal vehicle, shoot without earplugs and if possible, find an abandoned building or house where there's no danger of hurting bystanders and learn what to expect from your personal weapon of choice when the circumstances are less than perfect. You will damage your hearing posssibly, but you might safe your life or the life of others. Certainly, I would not advise repeated shooting without ear protection.

Also, practice shooting with your head turned away from the target at very close ranges of seven yards or less. In this era of rampant blood-borne pathogens, what would it profit you to buy an expensive deep cover pistol, get you CCL, train extensively and then have the blood of an aids-infected career criminal splattered all over your face after shooting him point blank range to protect yourself or a loved one.

When you get down to it there are so many elements of firearms ownership that most people armed to the teeth don't even consider. Having a solid defensive stance that occurs automatically will help to assure that you are equipped to act decisively should the need surface.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

 

[Spectre]

Will,

FWIW, the chances of contacting HIV from being accidentally punctured by a contaminated "sharp" are quite slim- something like 1%. Therefore, you have even less of a chance from what you are describing, though a good chance of dying if the threat is that close and you aren't controlling your shot placement.

The schools of bujutsu I study teach a stance called "jumonji" that is very stable but mobile. As bobo pointed out, it is good to have some commonality 'tween firing and fighting postures. I use basically the same footwork for "jumonji" that I do for my firing stance. While my torso is Weaver, my footwork is admittedly wider and less forward-leaning than Weaver is usually taught. I already am training to move that way, so I might as well choose to integrate as smoothly as possible, as Will said <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Having a solid defensive stance that occurs automatically will help to assure that you are equipped to act decisively should the need surface.
[/quote]

As others have said, the totally sideways, one-handed dueling stance is much slower and harder to control while addressing multiple targets.