weak side two handed pistol grip

[dyl]

I've been told that switching pistol grips to a 2 handed weak side grip when clearing an appropriate corner is still taught in police academy as a standard practice.

Is this true? As a civilian, I've so far only seen the weak hand pistol mentioned as a last resort when the strong hand/arm has been injured. Therefore, 1 handed. Perhaps it's because civilians aren't typically taught solo room clearing. I've also not seen any police footage where an officer had time to switch hands purposefully with a pistol.

Has anyone taken a class or received training that provided the current general consensus?

My uneducated inclination is that keeping the dominant 2 handed grip is preferable to avoid dropping the pistol, and carefully slicing the pie for corners paying attention to body position seems like enough.

I suppose one could argue that if it makes sense for a rifle, it makes sense for a pistol...

 

[shafter]

Why are you clearing the room? Are you taking your time and being stealthy, or is this a more dynamic scenario such as an active shooter? I've trained with people of varying skill levels and learned from good instructors who teach both methods. My takeaway is that both methods have merit and that things are rarely black and white. Personally, I like to switch sides with either rifle or pistol.

 

[Sharkbite]

You really dont gain anything by switching with a pistol. With a rifle you can decrease you lead shoulder exposure around corners, but not so with a pistol.

The difference is where the gun sits vs your centerline. Just not much gain with a pistol. Not enough to justify the loss in shooting ability over your dominant hand. No matter how much you train, you will never be AS GOOD with your non-dominant hand.

 

[Naro]

"You really dont gain anything by switching with a pistol"
Not necessarily so. In the C.A.R. technique this hand-switching is very helpful in this circumstance, and if in a vehicle.

 

[dyl]

Are you taking your time and being stealthy, or is this a more dynamic scenario such as an active shooter?

Good point. I was asked about switching hands in this context: last year I had set up some shooting exercises for the local coroner's deputies who had varied skill levels and come from different professions. One of them asked about switching hands after getting a chance to shoot from cover/concealment at a steel target. I told them my opinion but it was just that - my opinion, flavored by civilian life. I thought that their role was closer to that of a civilian's in that encounters would be related to surprise conflicts at a scene or when interviewing, not so much pursuing or apprehending someone. So I figured these would be dynamic solo defensive scenarios, defend yourself and exit/call for help.

You really dont gain anything by switching with a pistol.

The difference is where the gun sits vs your centerline.

Well articulated, thank you. I supposed with pistol being harder to shoot well with 2 points of contacts instead of a third with rifle, there is more to lose by switching hands in comparison to rifle.

the C.A.R. technique

I haven't formally tried it yet. The risk of shooting towards my elbow makes me uncomfortable. Done right, I'm sure it's handy. I think I'd cheat a little and push the pistol towards the target a bit.

 

[Naro]

In C.A.R. I don't like the High position with the weapon on my chest, also...and I agree the elbow can be swept. However the High-Ready and the Extended positions can be the solution to your concerns: they are ambidextrous, and aren't pointing at any of YOUR flesh. I know there are fans and pans about C.A.R., but if properly taught and applied I've found no other system that allows such controlled, rapid, and "in close" CQ shooting. And is ambi. YMMV

 

[Mikef262]

I have somewhat recently graduated the academy, and have a year of road experience. I can confirm that we were taught two handed grip, with weak hand as primary, in the academy. We also had a department range day where that is all we did.

The purpose is indeed for room clearing. Should a right handed person end up on the right side of a door (assume you are looking at the door and into a room to visualize this) it would require more of their body to be exposed while peeping the door with your weapon aimed. However, transitioning to weak hand allows more of your body to remain hidden. This is not for solo room clearing though. This is for two officer clearing where there is an officer on each side of the door, and dynamic entry is made.

It is a useful skill set for law enforcement to maintain. I make it a purpose on my personal range days to practice firing with a variety of different grips. Normal two hand, weak two hand, strong only, weak only.

 

[dyl]

This is not for solo room clearing though. This is for two officer clearing where there is an officer on each side of the door, and dynamic entry is made.

Mikef262, thanks for the info. So if I understand, if you were by yourself clearing a corner, (whether slicing pie or dynamic entry) would it be correct to say that you'd probably stick to your 2 handed strong hand grip?

 

[FireForged]

In my opinion you certainly need to be familiar with the technique and be very competent in its use. That said, I would only use it with a pistol in some very limited circumstances. I don't consider it worth the risks of fumbling and bumbling during a high stress event or the loss of natural proficiency of using a dominant hand. That's just my take on it

On room clearing in general, I think its a really bad idea (solo) unless you simply MUST do it and have no other reasonable choice. I don't have any kids in the house and I am not going looking for potential badguy who I suspect are in my house. They can come to me

 

[Mikef262]

Dyl,

Yes, if I am alone doing it I would stick to strong hand two handed grip, unless it was a weird set up, and was forced to stay on the right side of the door frame. It all depends on the situation, of which as you know, is different everytime.

 

[Sharkbite]

https://youtu.be/uIkm8hQTgvI
Here is a vid by John Lovell. About 1/2 way thru, he demos both methods.

You decide if it gives you anything.

 

[TunnelRat]

I've seen his video. I don't think he demos it very well. You can lead more with your shoulder when pieing a door/corner than he's showing. That said, yes most people will always shoot better strong hand. You can also roll your strong hand slightly (I think he shows that in the video) to help compensate some. I'm not convinced there is one correct answer here.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[JohnKSa]

You really dont gain anything by switching with a pistol. With a rifle you can decrease you lead shoulder exposure around corners, but not so with a pistol.

If you also switch eyes when you switch sides, then you definitely decrease exposure around corners. If you don't also switch eyes then there's no real benefit.

The switch can be done very rapidly with practice, but definitely needs to be practiced to avoid things like dropping the gun or getting fingers on the trigger unintentionally.

 

[dannyb]

Learned through bullseye shooting

I learned handgun shooting through bullseye shooting. As a result, I just became used to using one hand rather than two. Takes lots of practice to build up the appropriate muscles and muscle memory. I also did a bunch of PPC shooting when I was learning; also means that I'm a geezer. This meant almost one-hand shooting - weak as well as strong - from behind a barrier. As a result, changing hands does keep me far more protected than shooting two handed when looking around corners.

 

[Nanuk]

If I am shooting a pistol left handed it is because my primary has been injured.