We dont even have fire drills.

[MDman]

the following is an email from my school today.

THIS IS A DRILL:


HCC is conducting a lockdown drill. The scenario: Howard County police have notified us that an escaped, armed felon may be heading to campus.

The college must be locked down immediately. SEEK SHELTER IMMEDIATELY.

· Please remain in your office or classroom, close and lock the door.


· People in open public areas should seek shelter in the nearest closed room.


· Turn off lights, get out of sight and silence all equipment.


Please remain calm. We will let you know when the lockdown drill has ended.

THIS IS ONLY A DRILL.



this sort of thing just annoys me. if the school really is under attack, I am getting the &%*# out and I am bringing whoever I can. I don’t like the idea of being locked in a room hoping the gun men doesn’t come our way. This really makes me feel like brining up the whole CCW to the administrators, as I see it as a more realistic plan.

 

[Doublestack]

You are experiencing the knee-jerk reaction to the VTech shooting. They feel it is their duty to do something, no matter how stupid it is. They still don't get it, and they never will. Don't make yourself crazy over ridiculous policies that you have no control over. Just do what's right for you. If your gut is telling you to get the he%% out, then do that. What are they gonna do? Suspend you?

As Alice said, "Things just keep getting curiouser and curiouser"
DS

 

[Yellowfin]

I would heavily lobby the school to get CCW allowed on campus on that basis. According to them, your response to another VT incident is basically sit there and take what comes to you. They just made that position official.

 

[MDman]

I would heavily lobby the school to get CCW allowed on campus on that basis. According to them, your response to another VT incident is basically sit there and take what comes to you. They just made that position official.

my thoughts exactaly, However CCW is basicaly never issued in Maryland

 

[Yellowfin]

Well, start up a cause on campus to that effect first! Campuses are supposed to be areas of political activism, so get that off the ground there.

 

[MrAnteater]

Yep, knee jerk liberal reaction. It might as well say "Attention sheep - please herd yourself together for the impending slaughter".

CCW definately needs to include schools.

 

[Bud Helms]

CCW & politics.

Moving to L&P.

 

[G-Cym]

I'd prolly turn the lights off, wait by the door with the fire extinguisher, blast the guy in the face and try to wrestle his weapon away from him. But that's just me. Everyone is free to do what they want and what they feel is best. I would try to stop the BG, even if it was a long and risky shot. If I made it out, I might even try to come back in with my own weapon, if the cops weren't there already. I recall an attempted school shooting a few years back where 2 would be victims did in fact return with their own weapons and held the perp at bay until the police came. Their involvement was downplayed in the media of course.

This is just for me of course. I don't have a family, and my faith in my religion makes me less than fearful of dying, especially dying trying to help someone. I totally understand if others feel getting away as the best course of action for them.

 

[cold dead hands]

Concealed means concealed. I am stupid enough to carry regardless of school policy. I am not in school anymore, but I am going back in a few years after my kids are more grown up. Seriously, most college kids are so self absorbed that they are highly unlikely to notice a thin gun lika Kahr MK or PM 9mm or .40 in a decent pocket holster. Nobody notices my 5 shot .357 snubbie carried in my front pocket in an Uncle Mike's pocket holster.

Then there is the issue of the fact that too many college kids are just frightened and soft. No kid tried to smash Mr. Murder at VA Tech with a chair or large book or even peg him between the eyes with a cell phone or iPod. The fire extingusher trick sounds good too. Little sheep waiting for their turn to die. I don't care if it sounds harsh, it is true. I know lots of college kids and they make me sick. If I wind up in a situation like that I may die too, but my killer is going to be my honor gaurd to hell because he dies with me.

 

[delta9]

Then there is the issue of the fact that too many college kids are just frightened and soft

Gotta agree with this one. In two years of running a judo club at my college, we could never get more than three or four students interested in a medium-sized state university. Aikido Club was the only other martial arts club and had similiar recruiting troubles. No shooting sports. No wrestling team. The only other women we even managed to get was German.

Seems the vast majority of college kids are totally uninterested in cultivating any physical skills that could be used for defense. I cannot figure out where lockdown makes sense. Not remotely. It is simply the school reinforcing the students' instinct, which is to hunker down and hope this isn't happening.

 

[Sigma 40 Blaster]

I think a lot of times we focus too much on ourselves and forget about the big picture. The school administrators are wanting to play the odds and keep as many people as possible safe. Having everyone run INTO THE HALLWAY where shooting is going on is not the safest thing in the world. Honestly I do not think every student having a gun would be a good thing in a school shooting situation either. Hysteria plus guns plus crowd = making a horrific incident even worse.

I worked as a teacher at a state school and had this very conversation after the VA Tech incident with the chief of campus police who was a Marine, policeman, detective, and very pro 2A. After debating with him at length I began to see his logic and I changed my opinion.

It just makes sense to limit the targets available to a shooter, not bring more into the fray and CCW'ers trying to get the bad guy would equal a lot more people killed in the crossfire. After reading some responses from some members I have a feeling some CCW'ers would likely end up shooting each other trying to be brave and save the day.

At the same time I'm not saying I'd be still and wait for help. I'd do whatever I could to secure the room if I couldn't escape and prepare to mount some kind of offensive if the shooter was in or got in to the room. I think I read somewhere our first and most dangerous weapon is our brain, a gun is just a tool...a helluva tool but nonetheless I can survive with other tools at my disposal.

 

[BillCA]

Let's remember that the horrific school shootings happened before any lockdown occurred. At V-Tech the killer brought his own chains to lock the doors to keep his victims inside as well as to keep authorities out.

If 3% of the students carried (about the average in the population at large) that's only 15 out of every 500 students and probably only half of them will be in classes at the same time.

But in the event someone hears shooting in a hallway or another classroom, I think the prudent CCW will take a position to cover the door(s), not run "into battle" like some Hollywood hero.

 

[CmpsdNoMore]

I didn't really think about this until now...

Say there was a school shooting in progress.

Out of 500 people let's say there's 10 CCWs.
How would those 10 people know exactly who the person killing innocent people was unless they saw the act taking place?

 

[cold dead hands]

I can't belive you acutully asked that.

The guy with the CCW isn't going to be shooting people without guns and hopefully has the brains to get cover and wait. Chances are that the killer is going to be in the halls trying to enter the room. The guy with the CCW need only be patient and then shoot the SOB if he gets in.

I'll admit there is potential for shooting a fellow CCW, but it gives schools no right to make students defenseless.

 

[CmpsdNoMore]

Now that you mention it, I'm not quite sure why I asked it...
I think I was still kind of asleep...

I wasn't trying to say I was against carrying on college campuses.
Far from it.

 

[grey sky]

No real leaders anymore, lock your door and hide indeed. Let the barbarians take what they will maybe they will let you live if you cower and beg enough??? Don't murdering crazies offten respond to that???

Sorry this is just more of the same were has america gone

 

[cold dead hands]

I was wondering how word of a deranged killer gets out to the individual rooms? P.A., phone, intercom, some poor schmuck who happened to wear running shoes that day? How will he/she (the killer) be tracked since campuses tend to be rather large with many buildings? And just how the heck is that supposed to help in VA Tech redux? Nobody saw it coming and there was no time to get the message out from the head office. When it is all said and done, all that could be done was dial 911 and pray that your life was not over that day. Bravery and guns stop killers, not cell phones and prayers.

 

[Sigma 40 Blaster]

I was just trying to offer a different perspective, I've seen a LOT of videos where CHL holders basically freaked out and reacted in a manner that had a lot of us holding our heads is amazement and disappointment. Not all of us mind you but quite a few. I haven't seen a lot of videos or stories of CHL holders who actually demonstrated a high level of proficiency and training in a SHTF situation but I'm sure that has a lot to do with our left leaning media.

I have full confidence in my ability to assess a situation and make a decent decision on how to act, I do not share that same confidence in anyone with a gun because let's face it, there are a lot of cowboys out there. There are even more people who carry out of fear...those guys are even more dangerous.

I think like any other situation, if some armed whack job wants to kill someone it's going to happen. You want to minimize casualties and end the threat as soon as possible.

I personally would like to see faculty and staff "deputized" on campus to carry openly or concealed (a lot of former military guys go into education in some form or another)...these guys and gals would go through DPS or LEO training specifically for these types of scenarios. I also would like some real form of emergency preparedness to notify people as soon as possible AND have some real workable scenarios established for handling a situation such as this.

At the end of the day I do not want 4% of the student body armed in case of an attack, I want highly trained experienced individuals to assess the situation and respond accordingly. Again, that's from the perspective of a former educator. As an individual I felt naked every time I left the house without a weapon on.

 

[cold dead hands]

To paraphrase..."I have full confidence in me''. Mr s40blaster...you are the god of self reliance I desire to be some day. BS. Carrying is fine as long as it meets your definition of qualification. That makes me so angry that I can barely type. If there is a killer in the building you are going to wish that I had my gun with me to save you, but your policy made me leave it in the car. I have zero sympathy for people like you.

I may want to be a cowboy, but that doesn't mean I am stupid enough to blast my bullets and run straight into the line fire. Just how much time do spend with your t.v.? When the potential for dying arises everyone freaks out to some degree. If you carry a gun, it is most likely that you are trying put death at bay for at least one more day. Forcing them to obey your concepts of who is allowed to carry may not allow you to live one more day. You're one of those guys who become LEO and hate to come into contact with a CCW aren't you?

Self defense is a right that always takes place over property rights if the property owner is unwilling to protect your life regardless of cost. I cannot believe that you actually support the 2A. Your policy just stinks.

Oh, your comment that lots of military and LEO teach means nothing to the guy who is about to get shot in his liberal arts class because his prof doesn't believe in guns.

Please join reality.

 

[44capnball]

But in the event someone hears shooting in a hallway or another classroom, I think the prudent CCW will take a position to cover the door(s), not run "into battle" like some Hollywood hero.

You said it best. This to me is the common sense way of doing things.