Want to get into reloading...could use some guidance.

[happymachinist]

So for some time I've been contemplating getting into reloading. I've spent hours reading here on TFL and other sites, watching youtube videos and reading Modern Reloading by Richard Lee. With my precision and often tedious background I think it looks like a hobby that would be enjoyable.

I have some questions, though, about equipment. With all my reading/research I have found answers to some and come up with more.

What I'm wanting to do is reload smaller batches of "accurate/consistent" rifle cartridges, like 308, 30-30, 22-250, 223, 204 ect. With a single stage press. I also am entertained with the possibility of reloading 9mm 40 and 45 cartridges understanding that productivity will be less with a single stage.

So here are my dilemmas:

I have decided on a Lee Cast Press. (I decided on the press first, then bought Lee's book) Do I really need the Breech Lock version? Initial price is nearly the same but then I have to buy extra adaptors. Is the time savings that great?

What brand of dies work well for a beguiner?
Lee is obviously going tout his own stuff as "the cat's pajamas" in his book, but reviews tell a slightly different story. Lee pistol dies seem to get rave reviews while the rifle dies not so great. Do I go Redding and not look back as far as rifle dies? Redding dies have me confused/slightly intimidated with the extra parts for neck sizing...at least I think that's what those bushings are for.

What would work best for my needs of powder measure? I won't be in a huge hurry but don't want to weigh powder all day either. I like the looks of the RCBS automated scale and dispenser but it's pricey. Do I get a thrower of some kind aim a half grain under and bring it up to full weight with a trickler? The hand gun ammo I'm not worried about just wanting to make my rifle rounds as consistent as possible. Keep in mind I've never weighed powder, I don't know how hard it is to accurately measure.


Thanks,
Dan

 

[PA-Joe]

The presses with the bushings allow you to set up your die and then not have to adjust it when you take it out and put it back in. Without this feature then you will have to adjust the die each time you reload. Adds 10-15 minutes to the process. Of course that assumes you are only reloading for one rifle. If you are reloading the same caliber for two different rifles then you will have to adjust the die anyway.

I didn't like the LEE powder measure so I went with a Hornady. You will have to get one that comes with both a pistol rotor and a rifle rotor. I also got a good balance beam scale.

For rifles most people will neck size only. I did not like the LEE collet style dies. I also do not reload for benchrest shooting so I just stuck with a full length resizer. I have my dies adjusted to just set the shoulders back a little bit.

 

[mnoirot64]

Dan - I think going single stage is fine. I decided on a progressive press as I wanted to be able to load my 45 ACP ammunition fairly quickly. Like you, though, I was most interested in loading consistent, high quality, rifle ammo (308, 270, 338 and 30-30). After running into metering issues with rifle powders, I started using the Hornady Auto Charge on all my stick propellants. Since I purchased it, I am now using it to measure my pistol powders also. While the case activated powder drop worked well on most pistol powder, I just like the accuracy of the electronic powder scale.

With regards to your dies, Lee makes good ones. I use Lees for 44 mag and 44 special. The Hornady dies also work fine for me. For 45 ACP, I have recently switched to the high end Redding dies. They make some fantastic dies, so I a may start buying more.

 

[OEF-Vet]

The dies you want to use depend on the rifle you are loading for and your end goal.

If you are loading for a bolt action rifle and "accurate/consistent" is your end goal then a neck sizing bushing die is a good option. I like RCBS and Redding but you will get a plethora of opinions on that.

For auto loaders you are best full sizing. I have no experience with dies here as I do not load for any auto loading rifles.

I load for 9mm and 380ACP and have had good luck with the Lee dies. It is a slow process with a single stage but if I don't factor in my time I get premium rounds for the price of cheap plinking ammo.

I like the bushing press because it does save on set up time. I still check the setup every time but with the bushing on the die I am already very close every time. The bushings are not very expensive and are worth it to me.

As far as powder measure I am still using the Lee but am looking to replace it in the near future. I weigh every charge when I am loading for accuracy rifle rounds and every 5th round for pistol or plinking rounds. I throw light for my accuracy rounds and bring it up with a trickler. I use a digital scale to do this but will check every few charges on the triple beam. The digital scale speeds up the process but they can be finicky so every reloader should have a good set of triple beams. If you use a digital scale always remember to re-calibrate it every time before you use it and keep fresh batteries in it. You will find some powders throw more consistently than others so it is critical to check charge weights often when trying a new powder.

You will become addicted to reloading and will have some trial and error along the way. The key is to make sure the error is just an inaccurate round for your particular gun and not a catastrophic failure.

Good luck and be safe.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

The presses with the bushings allow you to set up your die and then not have to adjust it when you take it out and put it back in. Without this feature then you will have to adjust the die each time you reload.

I agree that the bushings make it much faster on my breach lock. Once set up changing dies is quick easy and accurate.

As far as powder measure I am still using the Lee but am looking to replace it in the near future.

Me too. Although mine has been pretty accurate measuring different powders, they get a little gritty and some powders are worse than others. However I have found the need to upgrade to a progressive press and that is the best time for me to change it as it becomes more necessary.

Make this little Modification on your LEE, you won't regret the few minutes spent and saves so much time....http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539034&highlight=lee+single+stage+mod



Welcome to the wonderful world of spending money to save money, to buy more supplies, to make more ammo!

 

[happymachinist]

Won't a standard die and lock nut repeat just as one would with a breech lock adapter or did I miss something?

Forgive me as I am mildly overwhelmed.

 

[Bart B.]

I think those Redding dies with bushings HappyMachinist refers to means the ones with interchangeable neck sizing bushings; the bushing come in .001" diameter increments so minimal sizing of fired case necks be done as well as full length sizing the whole case and set the shoulder back a couple thousandts. Their lock rings can be set when the right height in the press is established; that's how they can be removed and replaced without any adjustment.

Redding's bushing dies are among the best ones commercially avaiable and are easy to use once you understand how fired cases are sized so they can reliably be used and produce very high levels of accuracy.

It's my opinion that standard dies with 7/8-14 thread screwing into the top of the press are the most repeatable in how they resize fired cases. Lee's Breech Lock system looks to sloppy to me for repeatable die settings; especially if one wants consistant case head to case shoulder distance after sizing a batch of fired cases.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Won't a standard die and lock nut repeat just as one would with a breech lock adapter or did I miss something?

Forgive me as I am mildly overwhelmed.

It has been almost as accurate as using the breach lock bushings, but adjustments are sometimes still needed. With the bushings, they are so much easier and faster to change. This video shows how easy, even though he fumbles a little....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w_pmttQ03k

Without them you have to screw each die in and snug up, then check and usually adjust FME.

 

[happymachinist]

Thanks for all the help.

@ Wreck-n-crew I like the looks of the add on case ejector. Will probably have to implement that.

I was talking to a buddy who's dad is pretty big into reloading. My buddy said his dad would be more than happy to spend a little time with me and help point me in the right direction. I learn best by seeing and doing.

I'm sure these are just the first of my many reloading related questions.

 

[mnoirot64]

Like all of us, I'm sure you will get hooked on hand loading.

 

[happymachinist]

So I think I have everything I should need to take my first stab at reloading some 40 S&W. I was able to find some 180gr Berry's Bullets and some some Hodgdon Long Shot locally. Load data on Hodgdon's site lists a starting charge with said bullets is 6.3gr. Thats all and good, I just wanted to clarify that there is only one type of Long Shot, as this is listed primarily for shotguns.

Thanks again,
Dan

 

[berettaprofessor]

That's the stuff. Shotgun powders often work for pistols as well. Rifle powder usually doesn't interchange.

 

[mikld]

I agree that your choice of presses is good, but In my opinion, the standard die installation has it's benefits. Learning correct die adjustments is critical in troubleshooting reloaded ammo. If you use a breech-lock type of die/press you set it once and "forget it". With the standard set-up, you adjust the die each time it's used and consequently learn correct die adjustments (FL sizing, and crimp die adjustments can cause many problems as seen on many forums). If you're in a hurry, mebbe the 1 minute difference between using a breech-lock die vs. a standard die will make a difference, but in real life I seriously doubt it.

For my reloading, I use the "batch method" even though I use a turret press 90% of the time; I size/deprime mebbe 200 cases, then at another time I will flare/prime some, and later I'll charge/seat/crimp some. Seems to go much faster that way.

I would suggest for a new reloader to just go with a standard 3 die set for handgun ammo and a 2 die set for rifle rounds (don't even think about a Lee factory crimp die for handgun ammo). Follow the instructions for setting the dies and process a few cases. There's nothing wrong with Lee dies, rifle or handgun dies. I have dies from Lee, RCBS, Lyman, Pacific, and Herters. I can make good, safe, accurate ammo with any of these as it's mostly up to how the tools are used. If you are a consistent, thoughtful reloader you can make safe, accurate ammo with any die set, but if you're sloppy and/or in a hurry, and easily distracted, even the best, most expensive die set will produce inaccurate, unsafe ammo...

 

[Sevens]

With my precision and often tedious background I think it looks like a hobby that would be enjoyable.
I read this with a smile. Some folks "reload" as a way of making up a bunch of ammo and I respect these folks who simply want a means to an end. In fact, it's typically what draws nearly all of us to this in the first place. But some of us end up going down a road that is far more "hobby" than production and you already seem like one of those guys. I never would have imagined that I'd enjoy handloading as much as I do, and after a couple of decades of doing it and learning nearly every step of the way (and still not knowing nearly enough), I've found that I enjoy it more constantly.

I have decided on a Lee Cast Press. (I decided on the press first, then bought Lee's book) Do I really need the Breech Lock version? Initial price is nearly the same but then I have to buy extra adaptors. Is the time savings that great?
That's the press that I use and I love it. I would steer clear of the entire "breech lock" idea. What they've created here is a method for saving you the extra few seconds of screwing a die in and giving it a few spins. And your trade for that nugget is that you'll have to buy a lunchbox full of these happy little breech-lock adapter thingys so each and every die you own has one. The whole idea seems like a scam to me. "Let's make folks think they really need these, and then sell them DOZENS of them!"

I love my Classic Cast press, but if you're considering other quality options, the Classic Turret is also to be looked at. And it doesn't have to be used in any manner of a "pseudo progressive" (it isn't), but it does give you flexibility of quick swapping dies and calibers far better than the "breech lock" idea does. But not enough to make me want to upgrade from my Classic Cast, which has been a phenomenal press for me.

What brand of dies work well for a beguiner?
Lee is obviously going tout his own stuff as "the cat's pajamas" in his book, but reviews tell a slightly different story. Lee pistol dies seem to get rave reviews while the rifle dies not so great. Do I go Redding and not look back as far as rifle dies? Redding dies have me confused/slightly intimidated with the extra parts for neck sizing...at least I think that's what those bushings are for.
I'm not the best answer for an opinion on rifle dies simply because my passion is handguns. And I use 95% Lee dies at my bench and I'm set up to do quite an array of different handgun chamberings and I've always been completely happy with what I get out of the Lee dies. I will say just two things about rifle dies... first is that I believe the Lee Collet neck-only size die that's available for rifle rounds just seems like a fine idea to me, but I will only say that while re-iterating that I'm not much of a rifle guy. And as for the other comment... well, I've never heard ANYONE complain about their experience with Redding dies. So if the price doesn't scare you off, I simply can't see you regretting the purchase of Redding rifle dies.

And if you end up with some extra time on your hands down the road, you could easily and cheaply pick up a set of Lee rifle dies in the same caliber as a set of your Redding dies and do your own "head to head" competition. We'd love to see the results of such an event. Challenge yourself to build the best ammo you can make with the Redding dies... and then use the same exact load crafted with the far cheaper Lee dies and judge the result.

See? More "hobby" !

What would work best for my needs of powder measure? I won't be in a huge hurry but don't want to weigh powder all day either. I like the looks of the RCBS automated scale and dispenser but it's pricey. Do I get a thrower of some kind aim a half grain under and bring it up to full weight with a trickler? The hand gun ammo I'm not worried about just wanting to make my rifle rounds as consistent as possible. Keep in mind I've never weighed powder, I don't know how hard it is to accurately measure.
The trickling method is time consuming and monotonous, in my opinion. The electronic dispenser certainly seems like the cat's meow, but it's horribly expensive and call me a "hater" if you want, but that thing is going to quit running at some point, it seems like a guarantee.

A decent volumetric powder measure can give you the results you'll be happy with. I recently discussed my thoughts on exactly this in a recent thread you can find here:
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539161

Keep in mind that you can always upgrade to the fancy-schmancy electronic gizmo down the road. But depending on the powder you're working with (extruded vs spherical), you'll find that while one is physically easier to meter, and meter more consistently (spherical), the other tends to care far less about how "consistent" the drop is. (extruded) But again, my caveat, that this is merely what I've read and experienced in the (comparatively) few rifle I've done and may not hold true for you.

Also keep in mind the ACTUAL tangible powder charge weights we are talking about here and that percentage of "drift" to the entire load. In handgun (depending on the chambering) we may be dropping as little as 2.8gr of powder in each case, though we might agree that 5.0 or 6.0 is an "average" powder charge. If our methods drift 0.3 grains either way (I use 0.3gr because at -MY- bench, that is unacceptable), we could argue that this is a substantial variance.

Now, compare that to a powder charge in one of your rifle rounds. I'll grab .30-30 as it seems to be in the middle of the five you listed. Generally speaking, we're looking at a charge weight of what... 30.0 to 35.0 grains of powder here. So even if your drift is double that of my example for handguns (let's say 0.6gr), it's fractional of the difference in a handgun round.

I suppose my point here is that consistency is not only good, it's precisely what we're after when crafting the best ammo. But we'll also have to admit that we need a working range of what is acceptable and what will be noticed when the bullet reaches the target... and if we don't find some limits for ourselves, we'll be spending 10 or 15 minutes crafting each single round of ammo. Which is fine, if you have yourself convinced that effort will pay off.

You will have to find what works for you.

 

[WESHOOT2]

speed things up

Buy a LEE Reloader press and mount it 7--8" to the left of your 'main' press.
Buy Lyman's 4-die 'Deluxe' set that includes their flare/powder-drop-thru die.
Buy a Hornady/Pacific, RCBS, or Redding powder measure.
Mount the flare/drop-thru die on the Reloader.
Mount your powder measure on that die.
Batch-process your cases: Clean, size/deprime, prime.
Mount your seat / seat-crimp die in your 'main' press.

Then take your prepared case and set it in the Reloader, flare the case and charge it, remove it, seat its bullet, and set it in the main press for bullet seating.

Batch-process your ammo. Use MTM plastic load blocks (I keep about six ready).

Way faster....

 

[WESHOOT2]

things you MUST HAVE

-safety eyewear
-RCBS 505, 1010, or Dillon Eliminator scale
-Lyman or RCBS Scale Weight Check Set (to be used --without exception-- each time you set up a charge weight)
-LEE chamfer tool
-LEE primer pocket cleaner
-data collection log (I use and prefer Lyman's Data Log books, and place them in 3-ring binders)
-patience

 

[happymachinist]

Wow guys thanks again for all the tips and help.

Here's what I settled on, it should be a good start. I'm bound to buy something here or there that might not be what it's cracked up to be, but to me that's all part of it.

I got a Lee Classic press WITHOUT breechlock. Mainly due to the cost. I figured the money spent could be put towards upgrading/adding equipment down the road. Also, in the event that Lee were to go out of business (doubtful but you never know) would I be able to get the adapters? I am of the understanding that the Breechlock feature cannot be undone on the press.

I bought the Lee 4 piece die set in 9mm 40S&W and 45ACP. I've read mixed feelings on the crimp die so for the few extra bucks I got them included, I can decide for myself when I become slightly more knowledgeable

I got a Hornady Lock-N-Load scale. A buddy at work sold me a Hornady Quick Trickle new for $40. Don't think I would have paid full retail but for $40 I thought I'd give it a try for rifle rounds.

I also got a Lee safety scale. Not sure what to think of it...seems kinda chinsy but I'm new to all this. Might have to upgrade to an RCBS triple beam.

I decided on an RCBS Uniflow powder measure for pistol rounds. The same buddy from work has a Lee and despises it. We'll see if it's worth the money

For priming I got a Lee Autoprime XR and like the scale I'm not sure what to think about it, it might be going back to Cabelas, I'm starting to think the press will prime well enough.

There's a few other odds and ends but its the little boring stuff.

Again I can't thank you all enough. I am looking forward to putting all these tools to use. I'm sure there will be more to come.

 

[rdmallory]

If you load a lot replace the wood ball on the Lee (any press for that matter) with a pool ball that has been drilled out. It will save the palm of your hand a lot of pain.


Doug

 

[WESHOOT2]

Hand-prime unit = RCBS.

I prime by hand or by Dillon XL650; no exceptions

 

[happymachinist]

I'll have to look into the RCBS hand primer I've done enough to know I dont care for the LEE. I've been priming in the press to get me by.