Walther P22

TRDFurgesson

New member
Have you shot one? What did or didn't you like about it. Its for the wifey, she likes my Gen4 23 sans the recoil. I dont like the safety on it already just looking at it. I have her shooting a single six at the moment but she prefers the glock to the revolver as far as grip goes.
 

chadio

New member
My brother has the P22, I had a chance to shoot it about 6 months ago. Feels very good in the hand, the magazine floorplate extension gives a nice 3-finger grip. Has oodles of tacti-cool.

Can't comment on long-term reliability or accuracy, didn't have the right conditions to put it to the test.
 

sils79

New member
Dude, search the thread for P22, there is sooooo much on here already. That being said, I had one for a couple years, just sold it cuz I don't shoot it much and I wanted a revolver. I love the grip, but it is not like a Glock at all, so much better. Mine was reliable with quality hi velocity ammo, but many failures to feed with the cheaper stuff. Others seem to have the same issues. The safety is a simple hammer block and that's all, but it makes it safe to lower the hammer.

If she likes your 23 sans recoil, why not check out a Glock 19? Same gun in 9mm.
 

AustinTX

New member
The P22 is junk. It's fun, but it's not a quality pistol. The slide and numerous components are cheap zinc alloy, and the fit and finish are pretty deplorable. The gun has a reputation for durability and reliability problems (like the Sig Mosquito, which is also zinc alloy-filled junk). Just run a search on this and other gun forums.

In truth, it's not even a Walther. It's made by Umarex. Umarex owns Walther, and the gun is sold with Walther's logo stamped on the slide. The resemblance to Walther's high-quality guns (P99, PPS, PPQ) is purely superficial.
 
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Dashunde

New member
Mine, a short one, very reliably ate a whole bunch of round amounting to lots of plinking fun.

They have a fairly large "complete" full-length slide and shoot a measly 22lr that generates very little recoil. These types of slides must be very light (low mass) or else they wont cycle... At $300 their material options are limited.
Calling them "junk" is not only incorrect, its also unfair.
 

Cheapshooter

New member
I really enjoy my P22. Although not as accurate as a Ruger, or Browning Buckmark, it is a bunch of fun to shoot. Being a full slide, and having a lot of ergonomics in common with a centerfire CCW weapon it makes for a lot of good practice on the cheap.
Here is a link to a site with everything you want to know about the P22:http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=48
The user 1917-1911M on that site is the Guru of all things P22. He also has written the downloadable P22 bible: http://www.freespeech.com/1917-1911M_P22_bible.pdf
 

bcrash15

New member
I also have a blast with mine. It is a fun gun to take out when I want to plink around and work on some fundamentals or a starting pistol for a new shooter. I also don't have to worry too much about it, clean it every 300-400 rounds, etc. Mine needs high quality HV ammo, but I have heard not to shoot a large number of "hypervelocity" ammo like stingers. Mine runs like a sewing machine on minimags. Now, like Cheapshooter said, it is not a target gun really. The sights are on a short radius and fairly open and it is harder to get a precise sight picture. I've been hoping for a replacement "target" sight set to come out from somebody, but I'm still waiting.

I did do several of the modifications from the P22 bible, and I think it overall improved the function of the gun, I don't see any obvious wear-related issues or anything that would concern me. I do have an intermediate production model though, I believe there is at least one revision after mine where some issues were addressed from the factory, but it wouldn't hurt to check the things mentioned in that bible. I stopped counting rounds through mine around 4000 a couple years back, but I shoot about twice as much through my P22 as all my other handguns combined.
 

AustinTX

New member
They have a fairly large "complete" full-length slide and shoot a measly 22lr that generates very little recoil. These types of slides must be very light (low mass) or else they wont cycle... At $300 their material options are limited.
Calling them "junk" is not only incorrect, its also unfair.

That's just excuse-making, as far as I'm concerned. Their materials options are only limited because of the profit margin they're after. There are a number of quality guns in the same price range that manage to use steel slides, and lighter steel slides will work fine with .22 LR with lighter recoil springs.

A gun known for routinely breaking its cast zinc alloy slide after a few thousand rounds of .22 LR can very correctly and fairly be called junk. A quality gun shooting .22 LR should basically last indefinitely.
 

pelo801

New member
they are fun guns, but i'm not sure they are built to last. here is my story-http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=443281&highlight=how+many+will+the+p22+go
i have it back now, with a new slide that fails to go into battery the first 5 or 6 rounds of every mag. maybe it will work better after some serious break in. we will see. i do have to say the main selling point for me on this gun was it's tactical feel, the similar feel to my other walther guns. i thought it would be good practice at a lower cost and still feeling familar to my main carry gun. i think it should have went more rounds, a lot more.
 

Cheapshooter

New member
There are many, many stories of thousands of trouble free rounds being fired in P22's. S&W has been very good with taking care of most problems that have occurred.
Try the sites I gave in post #6 for more help.
 

Fishbed77

New member
Have you shot one? What did or didn't you like about it. Its for the wifey, she likes my Gen4 23 sans the recoil. I dont like the safety on it already just looking at it. I have her shooting a single six at the moment but she prefers the glock to the revolver as far as grip goes

I'd pass and get a quality .22 like a Ruger Mark III or Browning Buckmark.

The P22 is not a real Walther, but an Umarex potmetal gun with the Walther banner slapped on. Umarex, better known as an airsoft company, is the parent company of Walther, and has been abusing the Walther name of late.

The only REAL Walthers are those produced by the Walther factory in Ulm, Germany, and include the P99, PPQ, and PPS, all of which are VERY high-quality pistols.

Don't be fooled by the P22.
 

rtpzwms

New member
Well I had mine at the range today, going head to head with my wife's Buck Mark. I lost, but lets be honest its not in the same league as the Browning. I would compare it with a Smith and Wesson 22A from a cost stand point it would be fair. The Smith would win in this if you look at only accuracy. The Smith would likely loose on reliability as they have a small plastic buffer that seems to have a high failure rate. But the part is about 57 cents and does not require fitting. At best here it would be a tossup but favor the Walther here. If your wife has small hand as mine does again favor the Walther. But if it was my money and I was doing it (and I just did) buy the Browning. A better handgun all together, reliable and accurate the grip is small enough for most small hands, grand kids excluded. I do like my P22 as a plinker and a good starter for the grand kids.
 

Dashunde

New member
AustinTX said:
That's just excuse-making, as far as I'm concerned. Their materials options are only limited because of the profit margin they're after. There are a number of quality guns in the same price range that manage to use steel slides, and lighter steel slides will work fine with .22 LR with lighter recoil springs.

A gun known for routinely breaking its cast zinc alloy slide after a few thousand rounds of .22 LR can very correctly and fairly be called junk. A quality gun shooting .22 LR should basically last indefinitely

First.. Do you or have you owned, shot or even handled a P22?
Second.. The most all of the broken ones I know of are the longer type with that compensator on the end, that likely contacts the slide.

A steel slide the size of a P22's would most certainly have too much mass to cycle correctly.
Its not only the mass thats the issue, but it must also have a recoil spring capable of striping the next round and cycling your heavier steel slide at a fast pace.

I couldnt find a single 22lr full size or compact conversion with a one-peice slide made of steel, they're all aluminum and/or only part of the slide actually cycles on some brands.
Including the CZ conversion.

The all-steel 22's you mention have smaller slides. The Bersa, Buckmark, Ruger, etc... small slides or rear-mount slides.
Even the Beretta Cheetah 87 has a cut-out area.

Yes, they could make a better product.
Aluminum would be a better for sure, but it would be more expensive... the aluminum conversions are around $275+

But like many have said - thousands upon thousands of rounds spent trouble-free.
Its unlikely that the added expense of aluminum would be appreciated.
Same for steel even if it could be made to work.
 
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AustinTX

New member
First.. Do you or have you owned, shot or even handled a P22?

I have both shot and broken down and inspected a P22. Partly because of that, I would never consider owning one.

Second.. The most all of the broken ones I know of are the longer type with that compensator on the end, that likely contacts the slide.

That appears to be the most problematic model, but I've read numerous accounts, with photos, of broken slides on the shorter-slide model. There have been plentiful reports here and at Waltherforums. Catastrophic slide failures within 10-15,000 rounds seem to be frequent occurrences. I've even seen one break myself. That was before I really knew anything about the gun or what it was made of. Prior to that, I was unaware that pistols aside from the Hi-Points had zinc-alloy slides.

A steel slide the size of a P22's would most certainly have too much mass to cycle correctly.

Its not only the mass thats the issue, but it must also have a recoil spring capable of striping the next round and cycling your heavier steel slide at a fast pace.

A steel slide, being made of a much stronger metal, would not need to be as thick as the zinc-alloy slide. External dimensions could be preserved and the proper mass still achieved.

It's just a cost issue -- but not a feasibility issue. Umarex wants to make a gun for $35-40, pump up the retail price of a low-quality non-Walther product with the Walther name, ignore any potential for damage to the Walther brand, and have a terrific profit margin. They could choose to spend $75 per unit to make a much better gun, avoid any long-term damage to the Walther brand image, sell it for esentially the same price, and make a little less money per gun sold (but probably sell more in total). That's not what they're after.

I couldnt find a single 22lr full size or compact conversion with a one-peice slide made of steel, they're all aluminum and/or only part of the slide actually cycles on some brands.
Including the CZ conversion.

I have two SIG P210 .22 LR conversion kits with slides made out of one solid piece of forged steel. They cycle with perfect reliability. Obviously we're talking about two different ends of the spectrum in build quality and precision, but it shows that reliability can be achieved with a lighter steel slide with full-size dimensions. For that matter, a P210's slide is considerably longer than than a P22's slide.

And there are centerfire guns costing less than a P22 with more complicated locked-breech actions that use much more steel than would be necessary for a cast steel slide for the P22, so cost is not necessarily prohibitive. It's only prohibitive for Umarex's short-sighted goal for this model.

Yes, they could make a better product.
Aluminum would be a better for sure, but it would be more expensive... the aluminum conversions are around $275+

Conversion kits are expensive in part because companies sell a much higher volume of complete guns than kits/uppers. The economy of scale is not there. People are much more likely to buy a Mark III or a Buckmark than a conversion kit for their 92FS.

Aluminum alloy would be a significant improvement over cast zinc alloy for the P22, and it would be economically feasible.

But like many have said - thousands upon thousands of rounds spent trouble-free.

Yes, you can get several thousand rounds through one with no durability problems. But I rarely hear of them lasting more than 20,000 rounds at the maximum, and that's terrible for a rimfire gun. Part of the attraction of a rimfire pistol is being able to cheaply run hundreds of rounds through them with no fatigue from recoil. I know guys who put 1,000 rounds through their Rugers and Brownings in a single sitting several times a month; they would likely break a P22 (or Sig Mosquito) in less than half a year.

Its unlikely that the added expense of aluminum would be appreciated.
Same for steel even if it could be made to work.

As indicated above, I disagree. But I doubt I'll change your mind, and I also doubt you'll change mine. :)
 

AustinTX

New member
Cheapshooter, I like the Ruger Mark III, and there are currently models between $43-63 cheaper than the P22 on Bud's. I like the Beretta NEOS, aside from its horrendous looks, and it's currently $91 cheaper than the P22 on Bud's. I like the S&W 22A, and it's currently $53-57 cheaper than the P22 on Bud's. For centerfire guns, I have no problem recommending the Ruger P95 or the S&W Sigma to buyers on tight budgets; the blued P95 is $21 cheaper than a P22, the stainless P95 is the same price, and the Sigma is $32 cheaper than the P22 even before the $50 rebate.

And all those prices are relative to the cheapest P22 on Bud's, mind you ($321). There are versions of that piece of junk on Bud's selling for up to $443, which is simply outrageous. That means that these far better guns are $175 to $213 cheaper than the priciest P22 on Bud's.

Your post should read, "They just can't stand something made of low-quality materials and components being priced equal to or higher than products of vastly superior build quality." Because that's the truth.

While I don't think zinc alloy belongs in firearms, I'll refrain from calling Hi-Points junk both because they aren't trying to compete at the same prices as higher-quality guns made from superior materials, and because -- unlike zinc trash from Jimenez, Lorcin, and so on -- they use enough of the stuff in their massive slides to ensure durability. The fit and finish is pretty poor, and some of the guns have reliability issues, but they can be made to run well with some tinkering (and Hi-Point CS will do all of that on their dime).
 
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Cheapshooter

New member
Each to his own. I like my P22, it's a lot of fun to shoot. I also like my Buckmark, and my old High Standard HD Military given to me 50 years ago by my grandfather. Some day I might get a Ruger MK, Just don't see the need right now with my 3 other 22 semis. After I fill some other spots on my want list I'd like to have a Ruger MK Hunter Stainless, and scope it. Just not a priority right now.
 

taurus4life

New member
i really like my p22. its been reliable so far with good ammo. and if i get 10,000-15,000 rounds out of it like others have said before they slide breaks i will have considered it a good purchase at 250$. i'm sure there are plenty of better 22's and at a cheaper price tag but if its what you want in a plinker then it will serve you well.
 

TRDFurgesson

New member
Shot one last night

The wife will like it and the daughter too when she's old enough. I just have to be able to tell a first gen from a second gen. Didn't some first gens have ftf probs.
 

Dashunde

New member
Austin -
The buyer needs to pick the right tool for the job.
15000 rounds will be rare for *most* shooters, and those who shoot more than that should probably pick a different pistol, the P22 isnt intended for them.

Sig P210 22lr conversion - couldnt find much on it, aside from a few older packages out there selling for ~$4000.
Comparing a P22 to any high-dollar rare conversion is foolish bragging, akin to proclaiming a Ford Mustang as junk because your Ferrari uses carbon fiber and titanium.

All of the current standard Sig conversions are made of anodized billet aluminum and still sell for more than the entire P22.
Are you certain yours is steel?

You have some valid points - The P22 could be higher quality, but as-is its a fun plinker and most owners are happy with it. I shot mine a lot and have no real complaints.
Few will actually see 15000 rounds (about 30 boxes of Federal Bulk), so the point is moot - especially considering only a small percentage will actually break, many will/could continue on much further than that.
 
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Fishbed77

New member
Umarex wants to make a gun for $35-40, pump up the retail price of a low-quality non-Walther product with the Walther name, ignore any potential for damage to the Walther brand, and have a terrific profit margin.

This assessment is dead-on. Walther probably can't help it (since they are owned by Umarex), but it blows my mind that other companies are content to license their name to Umarex (and similar potmetal gun companies) to make products that could potentially damage their brand image. These include the Sig Mosquito, the S&W M&P-22 pistol, and a whole line of H&K rimfire rifles.

There are just so many good (and less-expensive!) choices in a quality rimfire pistols, as opposed to these overpriced and underperforming rimfires that get by on name recognition only.

That said - just my two cents. I'm certainly not got to tell someone what to buy with their own money, but please don't be surprised when the quality of a P22 is not the same as that of a real Walther pistol.
 
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