Wad Cutter Question

[Hagar the Republican]

The .38 148-gr. LWC and great on small game. How would they be for a self/home defense load?
Range is gonna be pretty close in a non +P gun.
Can't get any more meplat.
Cuts a nice hole.
What do you think?

 

[spacecoast]

Better than a LRN, but probably not as good as a soft lead HP like the Remington R38S12 LSWCHP +P.

 

[hardworker]

People used to swear by wadcutters for defense. I'd have no problem using them.

 

[Dave T]

I had my own firearms training business after I retired from law enforcement. I taught our state's CCW permit calss and a self-defense class. Two things were almost a given. People with small 38 Specials (2", 5-shot) all wanted to magnumize their guns with hot ammo. Those same people couldn't control those small guns with the hot ammo worth a crap.

I always advised, particularly with the alloy framed versions of the 5-shot 38 Specials, that people practice with and carry target wadcutters. Nothing is more accurate, nothing is easier to control, nothing is more likely to encourage practice as shooting full wadcutters is actually fun and finally, nothing that misses the target is as effective as 2 or 3 wadcutters in the center of mass.

YMMV,
Dave

 

[pythagorean]

The .38 147 grain target wadcutter from Winchester or Remington or S&B is FINE for a self defense handgun. In fact, it is probably the BEST .38 load to use period in a small and light handgun (revolver of course--never use an auto as your first line of defense).

Period.
I rely on the 98 gr .32 New Police in my Colt Cobra

for personal concealed protection. And the .32 ain't no .38. But what the .38 can do is so close to what the .32 can do I don't worry a whit. I get 6 shots instead of 5.

 

[dussandr]

Dave makes good points about WC. I am about to switch over to Buffalo Bore's SWC .38 round, from the Winchester PDX1 HP round. The BB has a better velocity out of a short barrel, even the standard .38 load, and at the .38 velocities, I've decided I want penetration over expansion. The way I see it, HP bullets were developed in great part to stop over-penetration, exiting the bad guy and injuring someone else. At .38 snub velocities, I'm not worried about a round hitting someone after exiting a BG. In my very humble opinion, the risk of not stopping the threat because of a lack of penetration presents a greater danger than the bullet exiting.
My home has a brick exterior, and according to tests on The Box O' Truth, brick exterior stops medium handgun bullets. I won't be shooting outside, most likely, and if I am, I am not worried about exiting bullets (stopping current threat would take top priority, plus the other homes are brick too).

Pythagorean, that's a beauty.

 

[pythagorean]

I am about to switch over to Buffalo Bore's

You're buying into bigger is better.
Your shooting (or shot) matters more in the case of a handgun than the most prestigious load made.

 

[dussandr]

Your shooting (or shot) matters more in the case of a handgun than the most prestigious load made.

True. Static practice at a paper target is no substitute for real training or experience, but I do what I can to stay sharp- I'm a regular at the range and have been for years.
And I'm not trying to choose a 'prestigious' load, or buy into anything; I'm simply changing philosophy on my HD load in my .38 snub J-frames, that's all. I've used conventional HP and SJHP for as long as I can remember; but with 5 shots, the idea of poking holes all the way through seems to be a better stopper at those velocities than using an HP. I have checked the published velocities of most commercial rounds in both .38 and .357 and after much thought I am making this change, due to the short barrel losing velocity. Buffalo Bore publishes velocity data based on real-world guns, not test barrels or other best-case scenarios, whereas, for example, Winchester's velocity is based on a 4" barrel. I don't have a chronograph, but from what I can tell, the velocity difference in most commercial ammo in going from a 4" barrel to a 2" barrel is about 100 fps, give or take. I don't know if this is sufficient for the bullet to do what it was designed to do or not. If I have to bet, though, on one or the other, I'll bet on the hardcast wadcutter at BB's stated velocities cutting through reliably.

I realize the chances of even having to use are remote, but setting that aside, who knows what threat I may have to engage? A worst-case scenario would be a bad guy weighing 300 lbs, having who knows how much belly fat in front of his vitals, with the HP I'm currently using not penetrating far enough due to a lack of velocity. Worst case with the HC is overpenetration; I have decided to accept that possibility.

 

[Bellevance]

I always advised, particularly with the alloy framed versions of the 5-shot 38 Specials, that people practice with and carry target wadcutters. Nothing is more accurate, nothing is easier to control, nothing is more likely to encourage practice as shooting full wadcutters is actually fun and finally, nothing that misses the target is as effective as 2 or 3 wadcutters in the center of mass.

Absolutely. Practice with the round you like to shoot. And carry it, too. Confidence is a huge factor.

 

[fdreano]

Seems that I remember that loading wad cutters upside down in the brass was considered a fair-to-middling self-defense round many years ago...

 

[pythagorean]

A worst-case scenario would be a bad guy weighing 300 lbs, having who knows how much belly fat in front of his vitals, with the HP I'm currently using not penetrating far enough due to a lack of velocity. Worst case with the HC is overpenetration; I have decided to accept that possibility.

No perp is going to be fearless in front of any handgun ready to fire at him.

The point the perp knows is that it can be lethal.

Whether it is your comfy choice for a load or whatever it really does not matter how fat or portly the perp is.

All that matters is where the bullets go.

 

[Hagar the Republican]

This is not for a J-frame, but a 4" Model 10 that is not +P rated. I know I can use limited amounts of +P ammo without any serious damage, but I was looking for something to use all the time in this gun. I know LWC are accurate, I just wanted to know if these would be good for self defense.

 

[dussandr]

Last reply Pythagorean, since, by your tone, I sense you wish to perpetuate an argument.

What matters is not just "where the bullets go"; it's if they do the job they're intended to do, or not. Also, I'm not interested in frightening a perp, and I don't care if he knows it's lethal. I don't wave guns around to scare people. If I ever have to produce it, it's to shoot to stop a threat.

Also, try to understand that a fat person would require inches more penetration to reach vitals than a skinny guy, and that I was talking about worst-case scenarios.

Now.

 

[dussandr]

This is not for a J-frame, but a 4" Model 10 that is not +P rated. I know I can use limited amounts of +P ammo without any serious damage, but I was looking for something to use all the time in this gun. I know LWC are accurate, I just wanted to know if these would be good for self defense.

I think they'd be excellent.

 

[pythagorean]

The .32 can and will penetrate your fat perp whether you shoot him in the head or neck or chest. That is my point.
Should we talk about a liver or stomach shot?

 

[8shot357]

How would they be for a self/home defense load?

I'd say good, or good enough. In fact I have them loaded in my .357 6 shot snub with the last shot a Hail Marry .357 Pow R' Ball that I lent to my 80 yo land Lady.

 

[Buzzcook]

Seems that I remember that loading wad cutters upside down in the brass was considered a fair-to-middling self-defense round many years ago...

Well not quite. It was lead round nose that folk loaded backwards.

The basic lead wad cutter is pretty much the same in either direction.

 

[Model-P]

Well not quite. It was lead round nose that folk loaded backwards.

The basic lead wad cutter is pretty much the same in either direction.

I'm sure that what he heard was with reference to hollow based wad cutters. It was a common suggestion a while back, but I understand they are inaccurate as hell that way.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

No one that I ever heard of loaded RN backwars.
They loaded hollow base wadcutter backwards.

 

[Eagle0711]

YES

The answer to the question is-YES!

I'd have no problem using them.